Chantry Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 I have a small electric grill* on my deck that is rated at 1750 watts. I use an outdoor extension cord rated for 1625 watts. After 15 minutes the female end of the extension cord is very warm to the touch. Am I correct in thinking that extension cord isn't rated for the electric grill? *The People's Republic of Connecticut feels that it is unsafe to have a propane, charcoal or any other grill that actually produces flames on apartment or condo decks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 You really should have a better cord. How long is the cord. That is also a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 I've wondered about a similar question. My vacuum cleaner. I uncoil the cord. I plug it in. I vacuum the rug. And when I coil up the cord, the cord is hot. Seems like it should not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 31 minutes ago, Chantry said: I have a small electric grill* on my deck that is rated at 1750 watts. I use an outdoor extension cord rated for 1625 watts. After 15 minutes the female end of the extension cord is very warm to the touch. Am I correct in thinking that extension cord isn't rated for the electric grill? YES! *The People's Republic of Connecticut feels that it is unsafe to have a propane, charcoal or any other grill that actually produces flames on apartment or condo decks. You will need a cord made from #12 wire. Keep the length of the cord under 50' if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 As long as the heat can dissipate, getting warm is not necessarily a problem. Alpo's vacuum cleaner for instance... Applying rule of thumb, though. 1,750 is a lot of watts. It does require a 20 amp breaker. The grill will draw about 15 amps at full heat, a 12 GA extension cord is required up to 50 feet in length. That includes 1 foot, 10 feet, anything less than 50 feet. The current draw requires 12 GA wire. Note that wire size goes up as the gauge number gets smaller. Bigger numbers are smaller sized wires. The instructions for your grill may also state to not use an extension cord at all, but I probably would. Just not a long one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still hand Bill Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Also the one thing almost never discussed is that circuits are only rated for 80% of the label for continuous use. So a cord rated for 1625 w is really only 1300w continuous use. Too small for your use. all wire has resistance and the smaller and or longer it is, the larger the loss to heat. By using a cord that’s too long or small you get less heat from the heater. Moral of the story, use as short a cord as you can. Also get a larger gauge (smaller number) to get the best performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted June 24, 2021 Author Share Posted June 24, 2021 The cord is about 15 feet and I didn't know the wattage of either grill or the cord until after I had started typing the OP. I see I'll be off to the big box store after work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chantry said: The cord is about 15 feet and I didn't know the wattage of either grill or the cord until after I had started typing the OP. I see I'll be off to the big box store after work. One of the thick yellow ones I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 https://www.stayonline.com/product-resources/reference-circuit-ampacity.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 3 hours ago, Chantry said: I have a small electric grill* on my deck that is rated at 1750 watts. I use an outdoor extension cord rated for 1625 watts. After 15 minutes the female end of the extension cord is very warm to the touch. Am I correct in thinking that extension cord isn't rated for the electric grill? *The People's Republic of Connecticut feels that it is unsafe to have a propane, charcoal or any other grill that actually produces flames on apartment or condo decks. We've seen a number of very bad fires involving gas and charcoal grills on condo decks. Causes vary, but for the most part, they involve (1) deck being constructed of combustible materials, with no meanigful protection under or around the grill; (2) inadequate or incorrect grill maintenance, often resulting in degraded cylinder hoses or inoperable regulators/valves; and (3) lack of proper grill cleaning, leading to grease fueled fires. All of this is magnified at most condos, where deck space is limited, grills are positioned too close to combustible siding, and/or are placed under overhangs or even under decks extending out from 2nd and 3rd story units. In this particular circumstance, I do not blame the authorities for trying to protect the folks who innocently live in these structures from the stupidity, carelessness or forgetfulness of their neighbors. And I have not even mentioned how often these fires are abetted by the intoxication of the grillers. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 @Chantry Your grill is pulling about 15 amps. Based on this, you want an extension cord constructed of 14 gauge wire or even better 12 gauge wire. The cord you are using is most likely constructed of only 16 gauge wire. Most extension cords sold are constructed of 16 gauge wire which can safely handle current loads of 10 amps. Only the more expensive "Heavy Duty" cords will be constructed of 14 or 12 gauge wire. Be sure the circuit you have this plugged into does not have any other items plugged in at the same time. The reason for this is most household circuits are only rated for a 15 amp load and when used at or near this load for long periods of time the wiring will get hot but the circuit breaker may not pop and you could start a fire inside the walls of your condo. If your condo wiring is up to date, the kitchen circuits wired with 12 gauge wire and are rated for up to 20 amps of current. You should plug this grill into one of those outlets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Costco has a 2 pack of very nice 50’ heavy duty 12 ga. extension cords. I use one for my smoker with no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 What does the instruction manual say about the use of extension cord? You want at least 12ga, and 10ga wire would be even better. I wouldn't exceed 25' length. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said: @Chantry Your grill is pulling about 15 amps. Based on this, you want an extension cord constructed of 14 gauge wire or even better 12 gauge wire. The cord you are using is most likely constructed of only 16 gauge wire. No! 14 GA is rated for use with a 15 amps max surge, or 12 amps continuous use. The grill under discussion draws more than that. It really needs a 12 GA extension. With the caveat that the grill may not be rated for use with an extension cord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake Slim Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 12 hours ago, Chantry said: *The People's Republic of Connecticut feels that it is unsafe to have a propane, charcoal or any other grill that actually produces flames on apartment or condo decks. I believe that comes from the International Fire Codes, not just the State of CT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Chapo Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 7 hours ago, John Kloehr said: No! 14 GA is rated for use with a 15 amps max surge, or 12 amps continuous use. The grill under discussion draws more than that. It really needs a 12 GA extension. With the caveat that the grill may not be rated for use with an extension cord. Last time I looked at the code, 14 awg wire was technically rated for 20 amps, it just can only be used with a 15 amp breaker. I concur with everyone that a 12 awg cord really ought to be used, but even a 14 is going to be a lot safer than the 16 awg he's using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted June 25, 2021 Author Share Posted June 25, 2021 16 hours ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said: We've seen a number of very bad fires involving gas and charcoal grills on condo decks. Causes vary, but for the most part, they involve (1) deck being constructed of combustible materials, with no meanigful protection under or around the grill; (2) inadequate or incorrect grill maintenance, often resulting in degraded cylinder hoses or inoperable regulators/valves; and (3) lack of proper grill cleaning, leading to grease fueled fires. All of this is magnified at most condos, where deck space is limited, grills are positioned too close to combustible siding, and/or are placed under overhangs or even under decks extending out from 2nd and 3rd story units. In this particular circumstance, I do not blame the authorities for trying to protect the folks who innocently live in these structures from the stupidity, carelessness or forgetfulness of their neighbors. And I have not even mentioned how often these fires are abetted by the intoxication of the grillers. LL Oh, I understand the reasoning behind the decision, but I don't have to like it. And I've never grilled while consuming alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Make sure your new cord has high quality connectors. Loose connections create heat and fires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D. Daily Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 On 6/24/2021 at 10:26 PM, Chacón said: Last time I looked at the code, 14 awg wire was technically rated for 20 amps, it just can only be used with a 15 amp breaker. I concur with everyone that a 12 awg cord really ought to be used, but even a 14 is going to be a lot safer than the 16 awg he's using. The NFPA 70 which is the National Electric Code is adopted by every state for their electric code typically wo/amendments. The NEC ampacity tables hasn't changed in more than the 43 years I have been in the electrical power business. The NEC wire ampacity table for copper conductors states 14 AWG circuit protection shall not exceed 15A and 20A for 12 AWG. While the 75C ampacities are 20A & 25A. The NEC doesn't list ampacities for temporary wire; so, there are many extension cords that have wire sizes smaller than the rating of the plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 I make my own cords for heavy load use. I can get one made in China for cheaper but I don't want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 When using an extension cord with a heavy load, don’t leave it rolled or coiled up. It will overheat and possibly catch fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Chapo Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 On 6/26/2021 at 6:52 AM, J.D. Daily said: The NFPA 70 which is the National Electric Code is adopted by every state for their electric code typically wo/amendments. The NEC ampacity tables hasn't changed in more than the 43 years I have been in the electrical power business. The NEC wire ampacity table for copper conductors states 14 AWG circuit protection shall not exceed 15A and 20A for 12 AWG. While the 75C ampacities are 20A & 25A. The NEC doesn't list ampacities for temporary wire; so, there are many extension cords that have wire sizes smaller than the rating of the plugs. If what you say is true, then the chart probably still lists 20 amperes at the ampacity for a 14 awg copper wire. I don't have a copy of the code anymore, but googling around confirms this. If you don't believe me, look it up for yourself. I was surprised since we all know to use 14 for 15 amps and 12 for 20 amps, but the table has listed 20 amps with a little asterisk not to use a breaker larger than 15 amperes when I was working (15+ years ago) and it appears it still says the same thing. I use and keep only 10 or 12 awg extension cords in the garage where I might be tempted to plug something in that may draw some juice though. Those little 16 awg cheap extension cords they sell are dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 A circuit breaker trips on current (amps). A circuit draws power, and a circuit has a certain voltage. But the breaker trips on current, not power. So what? Well, the bbq under discussion is a heater and can be treated as a resistor. An AC compressor is a motor and has a lot of coiled wire in it. It is partly a resistor and partly an inductor. Also, when the motor starts, it has a capacitor to create a phase shift to help it start (capacitance shifts power phase in the opposite direction compared to an inductor). So, the requirement for a 15 amp breaker with 14 gauge wire... Is due to not all loads being pure resistors. There are inductive and capacitive loads which shift the current versus voltage phase. This phase shift shifts peak power, it affects how much power you can draw through the breaker. But the shifted phase does not change the amps you can draw through the breaker. 14 GA wire can technically support a 20 amp resistive load, but it is on the edge. The bbq can be treated as a resistor because it is almost a resistor, but there is still wire coiled around the element., it is slightly inductive. Probably not enough to matter, but I would still rather the extension cord to my heater not also be a heater. And at high amps, 14 GA wire will be getting warm. In this case probably not to an unsafe level, but it will get a bit warm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamus McGillicuddy Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 On 6/24/2021 at 9:21 AM, Alpo said: I've wondered about a similar question. My vacuum cleaner. I uncoil the cord. I plug it in. I vacuum the rug. And when I coil up the cord, the cord is hot. Seems like it should not be. OK Alpo, tell the truth. Do you really own a vacuum cleaner or is this from another one of your books? Seamus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Can't forget the ever handy 22 caliber automotive fuse. Arkansas Democrat-Gazette July 25): Two local men were seriously injured when their pickup truck left the road and struck a tree near Cotton Patch on state Highway 38 early Monday morning. Woodruff County Deputy Dovey Snyder reported the accident shortly after midnight Monday. Thurston Poole, 33, of Des Arc, and Billy Ray Wallis, 38, of Little Rock, are listed in serious condition at Baptist Medical Center. The accident occurred as the two men were returning to Des Arc after a frog-gigging trip. On an overcast Sunday night, Poole’s pickup truck’s headlights malfunctioned. The two men concluded that the headlight fuse on the older model truck had burned out. As a replacement fuse was not available, Wallis noticed that the .22 caliber bullet from his pistol fit perfectly into the fuse box next to the steering wheel column. Upon inserting the bullet, the headlights again began to operate properly and the two men proceeded on eastbound toward the White River Bridge. After traveling approximately 20 miles and just before crossing the river, the bullet apparently overheated, discharged and struck Poole in the right testicle. The vehicle swerved sharply to the right, exiting the pavement and striking a tree. Poole suffered only minor cuts and abrasions from the accident but will require surgery to repair the other wound. Wallis sustained a broken clavicle and was treated and released. “Thank God we weren’t on that bridge when Thurston (shot his intimate parts off) or we might have been dead,” stated Wallis. “I’ve been a trooper for 10 years in this part of the world, but this is a first for me. I can’t believe that those two would admit how the accident happened,” said Snyder. Upon being notified of the wreck, Lavinia, Poole’s wife, asked how many frogs the boys had caught, and did anyone get them from the truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 27 minutes ago, Seamus McGillicuddy said: OK Alpo, tell the truth. Do you really own a vacuum cleaner or is this from another one of your books? Seamus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.