Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Is this CAS Jargon or Cow Boy Jargon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend P. Babcock Chase Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Howdy Contrarians, I've been lurking here and think we have lurched into a false debate. For reference, I also write stages for, and only participate in, local (practice) shoots. We have top tier shooters and big match winners shoot with us. I don't know if they think of our matches as "practice" or not, but they are fun to watch and learn from. We all have fun, but any time I hear that buzzer go off, I try to improve. I may focus on my transitions or run a little faster between shooting positions. Is that practicing? Competing? No prizes to win except the satisfaction of improving. Maybe trying to improve while having fun is only considered "practice" based on the venue. I suspect that top shooters don't "practice" at locals just so they can kick back and enjoy the big shoots. Competitors bring the competitive mindset with them whenever and wherever they show up. It's a big part of why they are so good. One of the great parts of our sport is that our enjoyment of a shoot is not diminished by where we shoot and the caliber of other shooters. We each make our own fun. That said, I won't diminish the value of the great friendships that we enjoy at local (and I assume regional and national) shoots. Even after running a shoot and having written all the stages, I leave each shoot feeling that I got more than I brought to the shoot. Them's y thoughts, Rev. Chase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 To be really good at anything requires practice. Even practicing with .22s will help. If all you can afford is to shoot at the match, then that is what you have to do. And while Phantom can be prickly [we have often butted heads in the past] his opinions are often spot on. And yes, there are two types of shooters in CAS: those who want to push themselves to be as good as they can possibly be, and yes, that will take the best equipment, just as golfers spend hundreds of dollars on a single driver to get that last bit of performance, and those who are there for the comeraderie and enjoy shooting for fun. Neither is wrong. However, we should ALL thank those who make it possible! Back on topic, is "Head butting" cowboy jargon? I did get a laugh a few months ago over "suspenders". A form for miniature gaming I frequent, I mentioned I had gotten some new suspenders. Well, in England and Scotland anyway, suspenders are what the ladies use to hold up stockings....this caused quite a bit of laughter until it was figured out and explained! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Water Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 On 6/22/2021 at 12:01 PM, J-BAR #18287 said: Embarrassed to admit it, but I find the term “round count scenario” confusing. If the order of engagement is not shooter’s choice then it must be a “round count” stage, right? I've had time to think about it, and I still can't figure out what "round count scenario" is supposed to tell me about a stage. So what is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 22 minutes ago, Stump Water said: I've had time to think about it, and I still can't figure out what "round count scenario" is supposed to tell me about a stage. So what is it? Instead of a sweep, targets have to be hit a certain number of times. Example: shoot center target 4 times and then the 2 outside targets 3 times each. As long as the two outside targets were shot 3 times each it wouldn’t matter if you alternated them, triple tapped them or as a gunfighter shot them one target each gun 3 times as long as they were engaged 3 times each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Earp SASS#1628L Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: And perhaps you didn't see the posts before mine...??? Scapegoats are very convenient for some... Now the question of the day is: Is Scapegoat Cowboy Jargon? Phantom being himself, having a contrary opinion (nothing wrong with that) and not backing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Water Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 51 minutes ago, Yul Lose said: Instead of a sweep, targets have to be hit a certain number of times. Example: shoot center target 4 times and then the 2 outside targets 3 times each. As long as the two outside targets were shot 3 times each it wouldn’t matter if you alternated them, triple tapped them or as a gunfighter shot them one target each gun 3 times as long as they were engaged 3 times each. I see. Thanks I've shot sequences like that many times. Never heard it called a "round count scenario". It has always been stated as you said. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Stump Water said: I see. Thanks I've shot sequences like that many times. Never heard it called a "round count scenario". It has always been stated as you said. . Brevity of stage description would probably be the reason “round count” is used instead of describing it the way I did. Out here round count is used quite often with stage descriptions that aren’t sweeps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 3 hours ago, Wyatt Earp SASS#1628L said: Phantom being himself, having a contrary opinion (nothing wrong with that) and not backing down. It's a weakness...I know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: It's a weakness...I know... Or a gift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said: Or a gift I'm going with weakness...but would be willing to debate that it could be a curse. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: I'm going with weakness...but would be willing to debate that it could be a curse. Phantom It's a blessing and a curse. Been know to suffer from the same. No, scapegoat ain't cowboy jargon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 13 minutes ago, Assassin said: It's a blessing and a curse. Been know to suffer from the same. No, scapegoat ain't cowboy jargon. Oh...dang... Well...how's about "Scapegoadt"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted June 25, 2021 Author Share Posted June 25, 2021 As far as a scapegoat goes... Leviticus 16:20-21: And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat: And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness: And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. That's the origin of the scapegoat. It was a symbolic representation of the sin of the nation being cast out. This was done after the sacrifice of another goat in the temple. But that's not Cowboy jargon... Sorry, I couldn't resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 8 hours ago, Yul Lose said: Instead of a sweep, targets have to be hit a certain number of times. Example: shoot center target 4 times and then the 2 outside targets 3 times each. As long as the two outside targets were shot 3 times each it wouldn’t matter if you alternated them, triple tapped them or as a gunfighter shot them one target each gun 3 times as long as they were engaged 3 times each. Since the stage description still has to say "shoot center target 4 times and then the 2 outside targets 3 times each", then why muddy the waters with the term "round count"? Even though I now know what it means (thanks for the explanation), it adds confusion to a stage description rather than clarity. Clarity is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Doc Shapiro said: Since the stage description still has to say "shoot center target 4 times and then the 2 outside targets 3 times each", then why muddy the waters with the term "round count"? Even though I now know what it means (thanks for the explanation), it adds confusion to a stage description rather than clarity. Clarity is important. Is it that big of a deal? IMO, it adds clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 10 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: As far as a scapegoat goes... Leviticus 16:20-21: And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat: And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness: And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. That's the origin of the scapegoat. It was a symbolic representation of the sin of the nation being cast out. This was done after the sacrifice of another goat in the temple. But that's not Cowboy jargon... Sorry, I couldn't resist. Well that's because you mis-spelled it. It's "Scapegoadt". Cowboy accent...therefore...Cowboy. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 8 hours ago, Yul Lose said: Example: shoot center target 4 times and then the 2 outside targets 3 times each Not a good example of a Round Count since the word "Then" was used. Not trying to be a jerk here...but... If the stage writers intent was to put the first four rounds on the center target, then engage the outside targets 3 times, a simple writing of that would be: First 4 shots on center target, then put 3 rounds on each outside target. Done. A true Round Count stage will generally not have any order at all. Just number of rounds that must be put on each target. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 28 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said: Since the stage description still has to say "shoot center target 4 times and then the 2 outside targets 3 times each", then why muddy the waters with the term "round count"? Even though I now know what it means (thanks for the explanation), it adds confusion to a stage description rather than clarity. Clarity is important. Part of the issue is the word THEN should not be used in a round count description. A round count scenario is one where - The rounds are simply being expended ANY ORDER upon a given number of plates (With rifle - engage rifle plates with 10 rounds on 4 plates - any order. Each plate must be engaged at least 1x) OR The rounds are being expended in set quantities on a set plate - but the order of engagement is open. With rifle - engage round plates 2x each - square plates 3x each - any order. (allowing double taps, triple taps, single tap alternating, or ANY method that ends up with the specific plates being engaged with a specific number of rounds) Ahh, Phantom is faster than me yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Not a good example of a Round Count since the word "Then" was used. Not trying to be a jerk here...but... If the stage writers intent was to put the first four rounds on the center target, then engage the outside targets 3 times, a simple writing of that would be: First 4 shots on center target, then put 3 rounds on each outside target. Done. A true Round Count stage will generally not have any order at all. Just number of rounds that must be put on each target. Phantom Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 8 minutes ago, Yul Lose said: Oh well. Is there no merit to what I said? Am I off base?? Flat out wrong? Feedback please. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Is there no merit to what I said? Am I off base?? Flat out wrong? Feedback please. Phantom I used a bad example, some understood it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 28 minutes ago, Yul Lose said: Is it that big of a deal? IMO, it adds clarity. See the followup between my last post and this one as to why it adds confusion rather than clarity. Keep stage descriptions simple and straightforward. Extra terminology creates confusion. "Round count stage" is once source of confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Just now, Doc Shapiro said: See the followup between my last post and this one as to why it adds confusion rather than clarity. Keep stage descriptions simple and straightforward. Extra terminology creates confusion. "Round count stage" is once source of confusion. We can disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Yul Lose said: We can disagree. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 On 6/22/2021 at 6:04 PM, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: "black badge" A "black badge" used to be provided for current EOT entrants who'd previously won their EOT category or were overall champions. A practice that has fallen by the wayside in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxahachie Kid #17017 L Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Heeled = are you armed? Bear sign = doughnuts. Eatin' irons = silverware Hoosegow = jail Light a shuck = get the heck outta there. Prairie coal = dried manure to build fires. Bone orchard = cemetery Catalog woman = mail order bride. Cow salve = butter. Kidney pad = an English saddle. Choke strap = a man's tie. Calf slobber = meringue on a pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Thanks to those who commented on “round count scenarios”. I have a better understanding now. Round count scenarios can drive experienced spotters nuts, and even worse for inexperienced spotters. I like giving shooters options, but not at the risk of confusing spotters. I will take this into consideration if/when I am asked to write scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Griff said: A "black badge" used to be provided for current EOT entrants who'd previously won their EOT category or were overall champions. A practice that has fallen by the wayside in recent years. Nope - they painted their badges...and I think it was for Overall only. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 31 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said: Thanks to those who commented on “round count scenarios”. I have a better understanding now. Round count scenarios can drive experienced spotters nuts, and even worse for inexperienced spotters. I like giving shooters options, but not at the risk of confusing spotters. I will take this into consideration if/when I am asked to write scenarios. It's not that hard...spotters just have to truly pay attention...which is asking a lot outta some spotters. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Lugged soles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted June 25, 2021 Author Share Posted June 25, 2021 Doughnuts? Oh... Donuts. [Sorry I'm from New England. There's a Dunkin' Donuts every 500 yards or so.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex M Rugers #6621 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Dang , H.K. , your original thread idea kinda went to "Hell in a Handbasket". Rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted June 25, 2021 Author Share Posted June 25, 2021 56 minutes ago, Rex M Rugers #6621 said: Dang , H.K. , your original thread idea kinda went to "Hell in a Handbasket". Rex Yeah, it did... Sometimes threads will go off on wild tangents. This one certainly did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Chance Morgun Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Rex M Rugers #6621 said: Dang , H.K. , your original thread idea kinda went to "Hell in a Handbasket". Rex And you're surprised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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