The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: I ground off the sizing die so it would come down onto the case more. All chamber loading issues went away. ^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^ OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Shooter Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 And people say annealing .45c is a pain in the neck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 20 minutes ago, Tequila Shooter said: And people say annealing .45c is a pain in the neck Even annealed 45 Colt does not seal as well as 44WCF or 38WCF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Shooter Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Warden Callaway said: Even annealed 45 Colt does not seal as well as 44WCF or 38WCF. But it’s a ton better than non-annealed. I was just commenting on how boring most people find it is to anneal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 The Redding crimp really is great when used correctly. It works well with the .4255" JSP (if the cases are properly resized) and with the lead bullets without crimp grooves sized up to about .428". The first photo shows (left) the Accurate Mold's 43-214A (modified Lyman 427098), (right) Winchester's JSP. Notice the different crimp using the same Redding Profile die. The second photo shows, again, the 43-214A with the Redding crimp. However, the LFCD was used on cartridge on the right. Using the LFCD on bullets with deep crimp grooves can cause a bit of a crimp bulge especially when using oversized bullets. Most of the time when using tad bit of force chambering in a rifle, it can be unnoticed.....but in a revolver, the base sticks out about an 1/8" or so because you are loading with your fingers and not the leverage or the rifle lever. Also notice on the LFCD crimp, there is a little vertical bulge on the crimp. This is caused when using larger bullets like .430's and the brass oozing between the collet before it completely closes. The collet is not designed for such large bullets. Most folks never notice it. This particular bullet with green lube was cast by Springfield Slim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 On a side note, the Accurate Mold 43-220CC was specifically designed by Michael Streeter for use with the LFCD http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-220CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Savvy Jack said: On a side note, the Accurate Mold 43-220CC was specifically designed by Michael Streeter for use with the LFCD http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-220CC If you modified that design by eliminating the driving band between the two lube grooves, creating one large lube groove, you would have a heck of a BP bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 The bullet on the left with full diameter driving band often won't chamber in Sawmill Mary's Smoke Wagons. The bullet on the right from Missouri Bullet Company sized to 428 will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 I reload and shoot 38-40 and early on the rounds started to no longer fit properly in my revolvers. Then after reading about this issue it came down to the shoulder on the brass not being set back enough. So I ground off a small amount off the resizing die to set the shoulder back slightly. Have not any any more issues. All rounds have fit in 3 different pair of revolvers and 5 different rifles/carbines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 10 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: If you modified that design by eliminating the driving band between the two lube grooves, creating one large lube groove, you would have a heck of a BP bullet. That would be called the 43-215C by John Kort https://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-215C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 10 hours ago, Warden Callaway said: The bullet on the left with full diameter driving band often won't chamber in Sawmill Mary's Smoke Wagons. The bullet on the right from Missouri Bullet Company sized to 428 will. Does the front of the driving band touch the lands like in the below photo? Ignore the notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 9 hours ago, Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L said: I reload and shoot 38-40 and early on the rounds started to no longer fit properly in my revolvers. Then after reading about this issue it came down to the shoulder on the brass not being set back enough. So I ground off a small amount off the resizing die to set the shoulder back slightly. Have not any any more issues. All rounds have fit in 3 different pair of revolvers and 5 different rifles/carbines. I do that for the 44-40 as well. Not necessarily for that reason in my application but could certainly help others. Here is some information on that process. At the link, scroll down about halfway https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/handloading/redding-profile-crimp-die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 16 hours ago, Warden Callaway said: The bullet on the left with full diameter driving band often won't chamber in Sawmill Mary's Smoke Wagons. The bullet on the right from Missouri Bullet Company sized to 428 will. What's the throat dia of her revolvers? Will just the bullet pass through the cylinder throats with thumb pressure? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 10 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: What's the throat dia of her revolvers? Will just the bullet pass through the cylinder throats with thumb pressure? OLG It been a few years, but I suspect the left one was 430. The right was 428. The throats when clean would not pass a 430. 427 would fall through. Loaded 428 in this shape would chamber right (drop all the way in and fall out). No problems now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 I use Lee equipment and load .38-40 and .32-20. I filed about 1/16" of the bottom face of the .38-40 sizing die so I could get the shoulder in the correct position. You can mark the outside of your loaded case and chamber it to see if the markings are wiped off where there are constraints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Big Boston" Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 I skimmed the replies, and if this ahs been mentioned already, my bad. The 44-40 has a few systemic issues, as it became "modern" and SAAMI standards were established a bit was lost in the translation for cowboy to modern. There are facebook groups that only discuss the 44-40 and there is a pretty extensive web site sight on the 44-40 as well. I'll cut to the chase, if the bullet gets much over 0.429" the neck clearance is a bit tight, and the other is how far modern dies set the shoulder back. It's not uncommon to have to "trim" a bit 0.040 to 0.080" off the bottom of the sizing die. I went from a turret press to a progressive and a shell plate is not a shell holder. Adjusting the sizer is an important step and on most dies, if you do not trim the die a bit, you'll have issues. Not to downplay the crimp issues, but if this is not addressed at the sizing station, all the crimp adjustment in the world will be for naught. I took a sized 45 ACP case and put it upside down over the neck of a fired 44-40 case. Next I sized the case and repeated the measurement. In my case, shoulder had not moved, ammo wouldn't "plunk" into the chamber of my Vaquero. I'm a bit anal when it comes to solving issues and I want to know all the why and history. To that end i bought a set of 310 dies, I wantd to know how the Cowboys dealt with this. That was a recent purchase, I'm several days into it and I think I have it figured. Basically, the shoulder needs to be set back. The neck has to be longer than the shank of the bullet and the shoulder needs to be back from the chamber. The sides of the case need to be sized as well, the reloaded cartridge has to "plunk". BTW, I cringe at the very sound of the word "plunk", and If I was a bit more articulate with my words, I would not use that word. That is the short answer, the last time I tried to explain this to a fellow cowboy I was up to 3 pages. https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/page?authuser=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409 Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 I have been loading 44wcf and was using a Lee fcd. It was suggested to push out the collet and clean between the fingers...that made a bit of a difference. But still had some issues on the rare occasion when I loaded smokeless powder cases collapsed in the rifle. The Redding profile crimp die solved the issue for me. I would still use the Lee fcd for straight wall cases. Hochbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Sheridan Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Check the length on the brass. I was running into the same issue where a particular batch of brass was a bit longer than the ones I had set the crimp die with. This resulted in overcrimping and bulging of the necks on that brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambush Andy Posted July 2, 2021 Author Share Posted July 2, 2021 Thanks for all the advice Pards.. I followed a bunch of it.. ground the lee sizing die a bit and set it as firm against the plate as I could, seated the bullet a bit higher than I had been so total length was right, bought the redding crimp die and make sure all the dies were completely clean, and voila, just loaded 50 using brass I had a problem with, and every one of them were perfect. Now I just gotta work on the shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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