bgavin Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 I have a run of SNS Casting cast bullets in .309 Carbine Hi-Tek to run in my 30-06. I found published loads for 30-06 and want to use these bullets for plinkers. These bullets have a cannelure. I'm thinking the FCD is just what I need for a roll crimp on 30-06 brass with this bullet. I use a Redding single stage press. Thoughts or any words of wisdom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 I have a 30 Carbine Blackhawk. I took some 115 grain round nose flat point 313 32/20 bullets and ran them through a 309 sizer die. I loaded them into 30 carbine, and used a Lee factory crimp die. While this put an excellent crimp on them, it, in effect, moved the mouth of the case back. Since this cartridge head spaced on the case mouth, it now went slightly deeper into the chamber, head spacing on the bottom of the crimp. When fired in the Blackhawk, since the actual case mouth was now in the bullet part of the chamber, the forward 10th of an inch of the case was torn off. Empty chamber, cartridge with taper crimp, cartridge using Lee factory crimp die. I only loaded 15 of these. After ruining the case mouth of the first five, I fired the remaining 10 in an M1 carbine. They showed no evidence of this damage. Regardless, I quit using the factory crimp die on 30 carbine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 After making my above post, I reread your question. You mention 308 carbine and 30/06. Neither of these can be loaded using a 30 carbine factory crimp die. Which of the three cartridges are you actually asking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 What Alpo said. Remember it headspaces on the case mouth. A taper crimp die would be preferable, not crimped into the cannelure. Never loaded a .30 carbine but piles of 9mm and .45 ACP. Same deal. Load a few to test before going crazy. My 2 cents, JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 I see no need for a crimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted June 20, 2021 Author Share Posted June 20, 2021 7 hours ago, bgavin said: I have a run of SNS Casting cast bullets in .309 Carbine Hi-Tek to run in my 30-06. Sorry, I was not clear enough. I'm not running a 30 carbine.. I'm running a 30-06. 30-06 headspaces on the shoulder of the bottle neck, not the case mouth. Applying a roll crimp to the cannelure of this bullet does not change head spacing in a 30-06. My question is if the FCD will apply a suitable roll crimp to this bullet in a 30-06 case. Seated depth is only 0.035, OAL=0.685 My thinking is a roll crimp might be more suitable with this very short seated depth. [ edit ] I apologize for not digging even further on the Lee site. Lee does offer the FCD for 30-06 as #90824, UPC 734307908249 I won't have to fiddle about with a 30 Carbine FCD after all. Of course.. it is Out of Stock, No Backorder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 Okie dokie. If I am now understanding you correctly, you are going to load a cast bullet in 30/06, and you wish opinions on the {league} LEE factory crimp die to crimp the cast bullet into 30/06. It will do a jam up jelly tight job. Using the roll crimp that is built into the seating die of your 30/06 dies will work assuming that all of your brass is the exact same length. The maximum overall length for your case is 2.494. If you set your crimping die up using a piece of brass that is 2.490, and you load a piece of brass that is 2.486, you will not get enough crimp on it. If you load a piece of brass that is 2.494, you will be putting too much crimp on it, which will result in a bulged shoulder. When I discovered the Lee factory crimp die, I completely gave up on using the crimp shoulder that is built into the seating die. The factory crimp die is one of the best pieces of reloading equipment to have come along in the last 40 years. I don't crimp rifle cases if I am only going to be shooting target with them in bolt actions. But if I am loading hunting ammunition, or if I am loading for any action style except a bolt action or a single shot, I always crimp. I do not want that bullet to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 U 6 hours ago, Capt. James H. Callahan said: What Alpo said. Remember it headspaces on the case mouth. A taper crimp die would be preferable, not crimped into the cannelure. Never loaded a .30 carbine but piles of 9mm and .45 ACP. Same deal. Load a few to test before going crazy. My 2 cents, JHC Oops. I misunderstood too. As UB said, no need to crimp unless for an auto loader. Won’t hurt nothing either if it makes you happy. JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 Okay then. Gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted June 20, 2021 Author Share Posted June 20, 2021 Alpo, thanks for the very lucid explanation. I appreciate the schooling. I have the Redding Master Hunter 30-06 three die set, but have not been able to determine which crimp type is in the seating die. Most '06 jacketed bullets are without cannelure, so my assumption was a taper crimp in the seating die. At this point in time, the Lee FCD for '06 is sold out and out of stock across the entire known universe. My intended loads are ultra low pressure, i.e. Trail Boss, Clays, etc that I have found published for 115 gr cast bullets. The intent is fun loads for '06 without the punishment (and black eye) I had with my first experience on Dad's '06. I have new and youth shooters I want to introduce to the '06, with the added benefit of $0.08 (shipped) per bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 Lee FCD works excellent on 30-06. Only issue you may have is getting a bullet that light to give good accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Sedalia Dave said: Lee FCD works excellent on 30-06. Only issue you may have is getting a bullet that light to give good accuracy. If not pushed hard, these would surprise you. I made some light cast loads for a buddy to shoot with after his back surgery. A couple dead raccoons later.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted June 20, 2021 Author Share Posted June 20, 2021 There are light published loads for 115 grain cast using Trail Boss, Clays, Red Dot and N32C. 1685 fps or a bit less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 I used Trail Boss. 120 grain gas checked round nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted June 20, 2021 Author Share Posted June 20, 2021 I figure your TB and 120 gr would be very pleasant shooting for youth, wives or new shooters. The SNS Casting bullets are BHN=15 and right in the sweet spot for pressures with the above powders. The FCD for 30-06 is mostly unobtanium across the world... but I did find one at Bass Pro for a few dollars higher price. I opted for free store pickup, so I can wander around there and kick tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 I did hear back from Redding. They told me my 30-06 three die set has a roll crimp built into the seating die. It is to only be used on cannelure bullets. Those bullets without cannelure should use the Redding Taper Crimp die for '06. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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