Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Citing a 2013 "scientific study," the U S Forest Service has begun to ban shooting in National Forests, such as the Coronado National Forest in Arizona/New Mexico. The claim is that bullets can cause wildfires/forest fires: Quote https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/coronado/news-events/?cid=FSEPRD914980 Beginning May 26, and until rescinded, the following are prohibited: Building maintaining, attending, or using a fire, campfire, charcoal, coal, or wood stove including fires in developed campgrounds or improved sites. Smoking, except within an enclosed vehicle or building. Discharging a firearm, including target shooting, except while engaged in a lawful hunt pursuant to state, federal o laws and regulations Mechanical and industrial prohibitions include: Operating any internal combustion engine off designated roadways. Welding, or operating acetylene or other torch with open flame. Using an explosive. I do not know if this has been imposed by other state or national forests - but I expect that if not, it will be. I did a quick read of the "study" (will go over it more closely later), and the impression I have is that it was meticulously conducted - under what essentially amount to "laboratory conditions." You can read the "study" yourself at the link below: A Study of Ignition by Rifle Bullets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singin' Sue 71615 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Now...many 'ranges' in Southern Co. will close during high fire danger... But question: How does this proposed ban speak on the exception of HUNTING...or does it?? Hmmmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 I have no doubt this administration will attempt to reinstate the ban on carrying firearms in national parks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singin' Sue 71615 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 40 minutes ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said: Now...many 'ranges' in Southern Co. will close during high fire danger... But question: How does this proposed ban speak on the exception of HUNTING...or does it?? Hmmmmm.... Okay...should have read the article first. YES...Colorado does this under FIRE RESTRICTIONS. If you read all the stage fire restrictions, you find many things 'not allowed'. Like lawn mowers, chainsaws, ect. that don't have spark arresters. The main concern is spark. When having this convo before, the powers that be in Co. realize a normal round will not cause a fire...but a spark (hitting a rock) could. It is iffy...but I don't want to live through another fire like The Missionary Ridge fire...so I will do what I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Yep, putting up a sign that says “No steel core ammo and NO tracers” does no good because lots of people are dumbasses. So therefore everyone is punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singin' Sue 71615 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: Yep, putting up a sign that says “No steel core ammo and NO tracers” does no good because lots of people are dumbasses. So therefore everyone is punished. Yup. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack, SASS #20451 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 The most interesting thing I gleaned from the paper was that SOLID COPPER bullets produced the HIGHEST probability of ignition. That was unexpected by me but determined to be due to large fragments heated by impact caused deformation of the bullet. As expected lead core copper jacketed bullets performed the best at preventing ignition. Also the graph showing contact angle between the bullet and target revealed that hot fragments ( the cause of ignition) were reduced significantly as the angle of contact approached 80 degrees. They did not test 90 degree contact angle. This shows me that based on their testing that the use of lead core copper jacketed bullets impacting good steel targets with the face angled less than 20 degrees from the vertical should produce no ignition issues. However the govt. cannot allow just one exception since there is no control over what bullets the shooters might be using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 At a Shooting Sports Fair in So cal (NC ca)there was a bay where participants could pay to shoot a 50 BMG. It was June, It was HOT! It was DRY! The 50 BMG rounds were knocking off pieces of molten metal from the steel targets and starting fires in the dry grass in the bay! Fortunately, they were small fires and quickly extinguished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 14, 2021 Author Share Posted June 14, 2021 7 hours ago, Happy Jack, SASS #20451 said: The most interesting thing I gleaned from the paper was that SOLID COPPER bullets produced the HIGHEST probability of ignition. That was unexpected by me but determined to be due to large fragments heated by impact caused deformation of the bullet. As expected lead core copper jacketed bullets performed the best at preventing ignition. Also the graph showing contact angle between the bullet and target revealed that hot fragments ( the cause of ignition) were reduced significantly as the angle of contact approached 80 degrees. They did not test 90 degree contact angle. This shows me that based on their testing that the use of lead core copper jacketed bullets impacting good steel targets with the face angled less than 20 degrees from the vertical should produce no ignition issues. However the govt. cannot allow just one exception since there is no control over what bullets the shooters might be using. This may cause us grief in California, where we are required to use solid copper bullets. I hope the wethers in Sacramento don't read the report! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joke 'um Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Barrel mounted noise attenuation devices could be relabeled as "spark arrestors." Silencer? No, environmental responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 10 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: hope the wethers in Sacramento don't read the report! Oh! I had forgotten that word! Thanks, Hardpan. Tup the wethers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singin' Sue 71615 Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 32 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said: Oh! I had forgotten that word! Thanks, Hardpan. Tup the wethers. Wethers...as in what you do to male goats??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said: Wethers...as in what you do to male goats??? Yep. In Hardpan's post he has a link to the definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 14, 2021 Author Share Posted June 14, 2021 58 minutes ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said: Wethers...as in what you do to male goats??? Thass it! Our state legislature is populated with 'em. The boogers have a strong mutual admiration and support society goin' on there... if any of 'em has an idea, no matter how absurd, they're guaranteed the support of their "club." And if any one of 'em dislikes someone or some philosophy of another party, well... it's mob rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 3 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: Thass it! Our state legislature is populated with 'em. The boogers have a strong mutual admiration and support society goin' on there... if any of 'em has an idea, no matter how absurd, they're guaranteed the support of their "club." And if any one of 'em dislikes someone or some philosophy of another party, well... it's mob rule. You hit the mark. A few years ago, in an effort to combat "ghost guns" one of them wrote a bill that was so vague that any chunk of aluminum or any piece of 16ga. steel sheet was considered a firearm. It almost made it onto the floor for a vote. Which caused me to make this meme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 14, 2021 Author Share Posted June 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said: You hit the mark. A few years ago, in an effort to combat "ghost guns" one of them wrote a bill that was so vague that any chunk of aluminum or any piece of 16ga. steel sheet was considered a firearm. It almost made it onto the floor for a vote.... Thank GOD we have term limits in the state... about the only thing that's saved us from a total dictatorship ~ although THAT particular wether has made a career of moving from one elected position to another. At least he's out of the legislature; unfortunately for the people of Los Angeles, he's now on their city council. Mercifully, his bid for the U S Senate fell flat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Sheridan Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 They continue to close off forests and gravel pits to shooting here in WA. At the same time existing gun ranges are constantly under threat of being shut down as housing developments spring up right next door, and soccer moms freak out thinking their kid will get hit by a stray bullet on the way to school (or maybe they just hate the noise). Pretty soon there will be virtually nowhere you can legally shoot a firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: Thank GOD we have term limits in the state. It doesn't matter, most so many of them are just interchangeable cogs in the Burton Machine (Tammany Hall West). Although, as we saw with Kevin "Ghost Gun" de Leon, the So. Cal scion is gaining power, but the difference is that of being under the Gambino or Genovese family. Two sides of the same coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Between the stupid, the ignorant and the ever growing group that simply does not care how their actions might affect others these now add up to a majority of the population. We use to have night shoots in the summer because of the heat and as hard as it is to believe even lead bullets would cause a few sparks. Right now the local forests are tender dry and we are experiencing record setting heat. Before I retired I was the head of an agency that had many firefighters fightning the Rodeo-Chediski fire that burned 468,000 acres in 2002. Anything that helps keep retards out of the woods under these conditions is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 24 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said: Rodeo-Chediski fire Lordy, I remember following that in the news. God bless the brave souls who fight those dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 15, 2021 Author Share Posted June 15, 2021 On 6/13/2021 at 10:12 PM, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: I hope the wethers in Sacramento don't read the report! 23 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said: Oh! I had forgotten that word! Thanks, Hardpan. Tup the wethers. Inspired, Joe, by your introduction and use of the classic and apropos "Capons!" Indeed, the collective body seems to be a mix. However, I am quite sure that the Wethers smell worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashknife Cowboy Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 Honestly I am not making this up..... We were asked once if our horse shoes where the spark resistant type, we replied, "Of Course". Stuff like this has not business in our forests. Stoopid people are the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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