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This ought to get things going.


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Seems like there has been enough whining to go around lately so I've got a idea to solve all the problems and perceived problems. Let's have just 3 categories. One Handed, Two Handed and Both Handed. (possible expansion for BP and costume) All shooters will be Handicapped by the age difference between him/her and every other shooter in the category.... i.e., if you are 63 and I am 73, then you have a 10  handicap against me, but you also get a 10 handicap against the guy that is 53, and a 20 against the guy that is 43, etc, etc up and down the age list.  Now if that don't jerk your tongue out then nothin will. :P

 

Snakebite

Edited by Snakebite
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Handicap points for those of us with failing eyesight too. And chronic sore joints. :D

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Several amateur golf tournaments I played in had a "flighted" system. If you had 50 golfers, top 10 were in the championship flight, next 10 in the A flight, etc....

 

Edited by Marshal Chance Morgun
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 I really enjoy having everyone at our matches-- youngest to oldest, and all different levels of skill enjoying the game together.   Nobody is left behind as they grow old, as occurs with other sports. 

 

 By having our style and age based categories, and scoring them both separately and overall in the general competition,  it adds a dimension of fun, while leveling the field at the same time, from a separate perspective.   

I personally would not want to see any changes made to that aspect of our sport.   

      

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24 minutes ago, Dantankerous said:

Handicap points for those of us with failing eyesight too. And chronic sore joints. :D

Well of course... if a younger person has some physical problems that the older person doesn't have, then most certainly we could adjust the point spread to compensate for the age difference. Also, we should bring into account the 1-10 pain scale. If you are having a pain day of 8, you should get more points than someone with only a pain day of 4. That just goes without saying. I'm sure that we can work it all out so that everyone gets a fair shake.

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It jumped up on my screen that Dale is having a Birthday today. (Happy Birthday)  I think that we should give him 5 points for that... what say?

 

Snakebite

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8 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

I'm going to beat Phantom to the punch and give a resounding.............................OY!!! :lol:

Ha... Phantom is Cool... I've known him a for a long time, and he is standup guy.... ornery sometimes, but a Standup guy. 

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Time for lunch, give me two points.

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3 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

Ha... Phantom is Cool... I've known him a for a long time, and he is standup guy.... ornery sometimes, but a Standup guy. 

Phantom would be typing his response...but your feed caught him so off guard, that he face planted himself a bit TOO hard...and now his typing hand is stuck!!!

Edited by Singin' Sue 71615
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When I first started there was Traditional, meaning the sights on the revolvers, Modern (adj sights) Black Powder, Ladies and juniors. They added Duelist the next year. That was it! Nice and simple!

Ahhh...the good old days!:P

I’m not suggesting to go back but they’re are an awful lot of categories today. Just sayin’...........

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All I can say is...

 

Where's that fake ID I had that showed I was 98?

 

Leaving this one to you guys and gals...oh, but I will say that just because the game is great now, doesn't mean it can't be better...oh, and that's not a personal attack on anyone that thinks the the game can't be better...so...there.

 

Phantom

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I don't disagree with that. We can always improve things.

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1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

When I first started there was Traditional, meaning the sights on the revolvers, Modern (adj sights) Black Powder, Ladies and juniors. They added Duelist the next year. That was it! Nice and simple!

Ahhh...the good old days!:P

I’m not suggesting to go back but they’re are an awful lot of categories today. Just sayin’...........


This is the Chronicle insert I received a year or so after joining SASS:
 

image.png

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43 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:


This is the Chronicle insert I received a year or so after joining SASS:
 

image.png

Interesting! I started in 1996, only went to two shoots that year and we used ONE pistol! The next year 1997, it went to two pistols and they added duelist. I guess we were a little behind here in Ohio. :o

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35 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I miss Modern...

Well with that Earring in, it's kinda like "Modern". :ph34r:

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So occasionally I identify as a woman because either the men’s pisser is in use or there is a long line for it at Cajon so I’ll identify as a woman and use the ladies squatter and since I’m doing that would it be permissible under the OPs scenario to identify as a woman to shoot the match? Asking for a friend.

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11 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

So occasionally I identify as a woman because either the men’s pisser is in use or there is a long line for it at Cajon so I’ll identify as a woman and use the ladies squatter and since I’m doing that would it be permissible under the OPs scenario to identify as a woman to shoot the match? Asking for a friend.

 

Only if you shave your legs and wear a skirt. Please warn me if you do so I can guarantee I'm NOT there to see it. :wacko:

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1 minute ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

Only if you shave your legs and wear a skirt. Please warn me if you do so I can guarantee I'm NOT there to see it. :wacko:

What’re you sayin, Willis?

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Hey Snakebite!  You sure know how to pick 'em.

 

I'm going to go with the handicap idea just to spur some additional conversation.


Want to it right?  Have a series of "standard" stages.  Distances, target heights, target sizes.  Scores for those "standard" stages should be sent in to build out the handicap.  Shoot in the top 1 percentile, no handicap and the rest is based on that.  Average out the differences at different percentiles and come up with each shooter's handicap.  It's actually really easy to do. 

 

Frankly, I think it's a horrible idea, but if you're gonna do it, take it to the logical conclusion and do it right.  Don't make a half-assed job of it.  It would be wise then to group shooters by handicap and not award an overall.  Just by handicap.  Top 5 second handicap, top 20 second handicap, etc.

 

Of course, this brings in the strong possibility of sandbagging.  Which is part of what makes it a horrible idea.  If I put in a crap ton of work and shot several 10,s of thousands of rounds prepping for a match, it would be really crappy to be beat by someone with a 20 handicap. 

 

Just my 2 cents, and since you didn't pay that, this opinion ain't even worth the effort that went in to typing it.

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i dont want to lie about my age for any kinda handicap , im handicapped enough as it is , none of you need to worry ill be in the running ahead of you , so if i use my third hand [ you did say one .two and both] ill be the first to DQ myself 

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5 minutes ago, watab kid said:

i dont want to lie about my age for any kinda handicap , im handicapped enough as it is , none of you need to worry ill be in the running ahead of you , so if i use my third hand [ you did say one .two and both] ill be the first to DQ myself 

I think he was referring to "Gunfighter"...

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Before he passed on at 87 plus, we had  gentleman that loved guns with a very firearms collection … come the matches , shoot one scenario and then leave. 
We used to have to hold him up when he was at the line shooting 

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2 hours ago, Doc Shapiro said:

Hey Snakebite!  You sure know how to pick 'em.

 

I'm going to go with the handicap idea just to spur some additional conversation.


Want to it right?  Have a series of "standard" stages.  Distances, target heights, target sizes.  Scores for those "standard" stages should be sent in to build out the handicap.  Shoot in the top 1 percentile, no handicap and the rest is based on that.  Average out the differences at different percentiles and come up with each shooter's handicap.  It's actually really easy to do. 

 

Frankly, I think it's a horrible idea, but if you're gonna do it, take it to the logical conclusion and do it right.  Don't make a half-assed job of it.  It would be wise then to group shooters by handicap and not award an overall.  Just by handicap.  Top 5 second handicap, top 20 second handicap, etc.

 

Of course, this brings in the strong possibility of sandbagging.  Which is part of what makes it a horrible idea.  If I put in a crap ton of work and shot several 10,s of thousands of rounds prepping for a match, it would be really crappy to be beat by someone with a 20 handicap. 

 

Just my 2 cents, and since you didn't pay that, this opinion ain't even worth the effort that went in to typing it.

 

IMO, Handicaps foster fantasy competition.  I would rather just win or lose and take my lumps.  To me, a race won by a person with a head start ( called a "handicap")  just isn't a real race.  

 

How about just letting us all compete in the same pool, like we do now.  Those who are old, like me, probably won't do as well in the overall ranking, but we might win our age-based category or shoot clean and be able to enjoy that.   And the possibility that we might have an exceptional day and make the top 5 overall is always there too.  Why dampen that enjoyment, if it actually happens, by making us feel like our successful ranking was fake, owing to our handicap assignment. 

 

 The best shooters will come out on top again and again.  The rest of us will enjoy trying.  Giving us a handicap to make us falsely  appear as better competitors is just a step away from handing out participation trophies.  

Again -- my humble opinion. 

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6 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

 

IMO, Handicaps foster fantasy competition.  I would rather just win or lose and take my lumps.  To me, a race won by a person with a head start ( called a "handicap")  just isn't a real race.  

 

How about just letting us all compete in the same pool, like we do now.  Those who are old, like me, probably won't do as well in the overall ranking, but we might win our age-based category or shoot clean and be able to enjoy that.   And the possibility that we might have an exceptional day and make the top 5 overall is always there too.  Why dampen that enjoyment, if it actually happens, by making us feel like our successful ranking was fake, owing to our handicap assignment. 

 

 The best shooters will come out on top again and again.  The rest of us will enjoy trying.  Giving us a handicap to make us falsely  appear as better competitors is just a step away from handing out participation trophies.  

Again -- my humble opinion. 

 

That's roughly what my point was. B)

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4 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

That's roughly what my point was. B)

Obviously we agree.  

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1 hour ago, John Boy said:

Before he passed on at 87 plus, we had  gentleman that loved guns with a very firearms collection … come the matches , shoot one scenario and then leave. 
We used to have to hold him up when he was at the line shooting

Everyone is gonna need someone to lean on sooner or later ....................... Bet he had as much fun as anyone at the match .

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I've thought for a long time that the number of categories has reached the point of absurdity!  Frankly, Snakebite's suggestion is worth considering, however, I'm not much on a handicap system.  I think the one-handed, two-handed, and both approach is a logical division and that black powder and smokeless should also be separated.  After that, some logical, but minimal age divisions could be determined and still cut the number of categories down by goodly number.  This would make awards a much simpler and less costly proposition and cut down on the number of low participation categories as well.  Maybe not popular with many shooters that "Choose their category carefully," but sensible in my eyes. 

 

In my personal opinion, many of our awards now are similar to the "Participation Awards" (nobody loses awards) they seem to want to give the kids these days in other sports.  Geese, some of them don't even keep score even though every kid and parent there knows what it is anyway!  Frankly, I'd prefer a real competition, even if it means less chance of taking home an award.  At least then, if and when I got one, it would be something to be proud of rather than stored away in boxes, in a closet, where all but a select few of mine now reside.

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When we started our 1st club, we just shot what we called Cowboy.  For four years we just shot.  You could shoot any style, any powder, at any age, but everyone was lumped into the same category of Cowboy.  We didn't give any prizes or awards, we just announced who had shot and their ranking.

 

No one complained, we basically just shot for the fun.

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