Hawkeye Kid Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Ranger Dan is getting close. I would clarify statement - All KD targets (rifle, pistol, shotgun) must be hit and go down to count. KD targets that go down due to target failure still must be engaged - shoot where it was following stage conventions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 8 hours ago, KH24 said: Ranger Dan is getting close. I would clarify statement - All KD targets (rifle, pistol, shotgun) must be hit and go down to count. KD targets that go down due to target failure still must be engaged - shoot where it was following stage conventions. So now ricochets don't count? What the hell is wrong with fixing the target and running the shooter thru the stage again?? Good lord... PS: What's your real SASS alias...outta curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 But how do you know a target is engaged if it is not wearing a ring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 21 minutes ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said: But how do you know a target is engaged if it is not wearing a ring? Might be shacked-up! (Do folks even use that term anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe LaFives #5481 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 We may NOT know the intention of a shooter but the shooter knows. Any shooter that takes advantage of the "system" is not following the spirit of the game. Unfortunately the "spirit of the game" rule that we have today is not the one that existed when this sport was started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 28 minutes ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said: We may NOT know the intention of a shooter but the shooter knows. Any shooter that takes advantage of the "system" is not following the spirit of the game. Unfortunately the "spirit of the game" rule that we have today is not the one that existed when this sport was started. Uhhhh...I know World and National Champions...well known...that have cheated...so... People are People... Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye Kid Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: So now ricochets don't count? What the hell is wrong with fixing the target and running the shooter thru the stage again?? Good lord... PS: What's your real SASS alias...outta curiosity. How many remarks if we go down the ricochet rabbit hole? Seen ricochets count, as long as it’s from the shooter’s gun and only takes down one target, unless stage instructions allow otherwise. stop shooter when a target fails, fix target, reshoot - sounds like an easy fix, must be a long list of reasons that suggestion hasn’t made it in the rule book. HK Hawkeye Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade Plowboy Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Hypothetical scenario: Same scenario as original post. However, instead of a (suspected) miss, shooter has an ammo/gun malfunction. Instead of 6 shells actually going bang, only 5 went bang but the trigger got pulled 6 times. So 6 targets down, 5 shots actually fired, 1 gun/ammo malfunction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 20 minutes ago, Renegade Plowboy said: Hypothetical scenario: Same scenario as original post. However, instead of a (suspected) miss, shooter has an ammo/gun malfunction. Instead of 6 shells actually going bang, only 5 went bang but the trigger got pulled 6 times. So 6 targets down, 5 shots actually fired, 1 gun/ammo malfunction. No projectiles out of the barrel...therefore it didn't happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckwagon McTaggart Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 This has been quite an interesting discussion. I tend to agree with those that think that the subjectivity should be removed from the game where possible. It seems like there are two different thought processes that would result in the "6 shots fired, 6 targets down, no call/next shooter" outcome. 1- We can't (with a reliable level of certainty) know the shooters intent with the first shot. and 2- It doesn't make sense to try to judge how close is close enough to qualify for "shoot where it was. So my question is, What if the shooter in the OP scenario removes any doubt as to their intent? What if, after the first shot, the shooter says "Oh sh*t!, I missed! Would it then be appropriate for the TO to instruct the shooter to load and shoot a 7th round where it was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade Plowboy Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 7 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: No projectiles out of the barrel...therefore it didn't happen... Why do you give a shooter credit for engaging a malfunctioning target in the first scenario when the shot didn’t cause any KD to fall but in my hypothetical you won’t give the shooter credit for engaging a target with a misfire? Both scenarios target engagements resulted in a downed (malfunctioning) target that wasn’t directly seen as a hit? I didn’t see in the SHB reference for target engagement a specific requirement for a projectile or how much projectiles to leave the barrel to satisfy the engagement criteria. What if the misfire was absent of powder, but the primer pushed the shell open, shot rolled out of the barrel, wad never cleared the hull, so when hull was removed the barrel was unobstructed so the shooter could continue with a safe firearm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Renegade Plowboy said: Why do you give a shooter credit for engaging a malfunctioning target in the first scenario when the shot didn’t cause any KD to fall but in my hypothetical you won’t give the shooter credit for engaging a target with a misfire? Both scenarios target engagements resulted in a downed (malfunctioning) target that wasn’t directly seen as a hit? I didn’t see in the SHB reference for target engagement a specific requirement for a projectile or how much projectiles to leave the barrel to satisfy the engagement criteria. What if the misfire was absent of powder, but the primer pushed the shell open, shot rolled out of the barrel, wad never cleared the hull, so when hull was removed the barrel was unobstructed so the shooter could continue with a safe firearm? Why do "I"...???? Okay. I don't give credit for nothing. Tell ya what, you go through all the rules and then YOU tell us what the answer is. Wait, you've already gone through the books...so yeah, you should be able to enlighten us all as to the correct answer for your hypothetical. Waiting patiently for your answer. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 12 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: No projectiles out of the barrel...therefore it didn't happen... Yes, but we count a jacked out round from a rifle as engaged so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 48 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said: Yes, but we count a jacked out round from a rifle as engaged so... Yes we do. And that "Engaged" target is a miss unless steps are taken... I can go on...say you jack the first round out of your rifle and it's the first "Shot" on a Stage. Do you have the right to restart???? Say you pull the trigger on a revolver round and it doesn't go "Bang", so you engaged the target, but you move onto the next target..."P"???? so... Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Not arguing, just clarifying. Goes back to our State match. I made a mistake and will apologize for it. Learned though... all we can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said: Not arguing, just clarifying. Goes back to our State match. I made a mistake and will apologize for it. Learned though... all we can do. No - I know yer not arguing...sometimes expressions don't come over the way we want on the Interweb. Sorry if I sounded snarky. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 You? Snarky? Never woulda thought it. Not bein snarky either, just funnin' Have a great weekend! We're shootin' tomorrow!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe LaFives #5481 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 23 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Uhhhh...I know World and National Champions...well known...that have cheated...so... People are People... Phantom Any system that allows known cheaters to win is broken and needs fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said: Any system that allows known cheaters to win is broken and needs fixing. Well we have them...like I said, People are People. And celebrity has it's perks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe LaFives #5481 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 13 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Well we have them...like I said, People are People. And celebrity has it's perks. There is Nothing better than a nice juicy rationalization Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 26 minutes ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said: There is Nothing better than a nice juicy rationalization I'm not rationalizing...but what's funny is that a lot of "Bigwigs" know of things...lot's of everyday folks know of things...and yet they don't seem to care or are too enamored by their presents that they would never dream of saying anything. The phrase I use (People are People), allows me to go about my biz with no expectations. However, I think I'm consistent in my words about this kind of thing. When I say that "SASS" or "CAS" is no different then any other activity, there's a reason I say it...and it's not to be contrary or a "Pot Stir...er". If you ever are interested...but I won't say names. It's just not worth it. Respectfully, Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye Kid Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 On 6/8/2021 at 8:27 PM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: Sent to the ROC for a definitive ruling. Any response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, KH24 said: Any response? Some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Null N. Void Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 Anxiously awaiting the ROC ruling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye Kid Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 A good scenario for Branchwater Jack to make for his TFL video series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 On 6/16/2021 at 9:39 PM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: Some. How about now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Null N. Void Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 Two months and still waiting. We all just want a ruling so we can call it in accordance with the ROC consensus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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