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Ok I would like to do some long range target shooting, like 1000 and beyond. Anyways the optics that are available now days have huge price gaps. So I need help before I make a decision. 

 

I am looking at,

First choice 

Leupold mark 5   7-35 with PR2-MOA retical 

 

Other more economical  possibilities, 

 

Arken

Sightmark

Vortex

 

Some of which have good reviews but I think they are all made overseas 

 

I guess I'm looking for any advice on this cause I'm not super familiar with with all the different scopes available.  But I do like the idea of a Christmas tree style retical for different hold overs 

 

Thank you 

    The Bearded Wonder

 

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Find a long range club in your area. You'll get lots of good advice and get to see first hand what works and what is junk.

 

Keep in mind that cost and quality are not always related.

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If you plan to do any competition long range shooting I recommend you go with a MIL reticle for commonality between competitors.  The other shooters will be able to give you corrections in the same measurement.  If you only plan to shoot by yourself, there's nothing wrong with the MOA reticle.  I try to stay away from MIL reticles with MOA adjustments.

 

I am also looking at the Leupold MK5 but in the 5-25x56mm with PR2-MIL reticle.  The other optic in my top two is the Vortex Razor HD Gen-2 4..5-27x56mm with EBR-7C reticle.

 

Take a look at the Bushnell Elite Tactical XRS-II 4.5-30x50mm with G3 reticle.  I've recently picked one up and plan to test it out next weekend.  It gets good reviews from PRS/NRL shooters and to me it looks good just looking through it.  But, I'll know more after next week.

 

The Burris XTR-III 5.5-30x56mm with SCR 2 MIL reticle has also received a lot of good reviews by PRS/NRL shooters.

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My wife has professional photo glass. Brand name can run thousands per lens. Was reading a forum and a brand was named that was manufactured on the same line at the same factory for about half the price of her camera manufacturers lens. 

 

Caveat was lower quality control. Get a good lens it as good as brand name. If not you played the warrantee shuffle and wasted time. 

 

What was funny was her trying to explain good glass vs kit  glass to me. When I figured out where she was going floored her when I said well yea if that what you need. 

 

TLDR get on a forum that discusses glass find out if ther are any just as good as or the same as that get priced because of badge engineering.

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13 hours ago, The Bearded Wonder said:

Arken

Sightmark

Vortex

 

Some of which have good reviews but I think they are all made overseas 

 

I guess I'm looking for any advice on this cause I'm not super familiar with with all the different scopes available.  But I do like the idea of a Christmas tree style retical for different hold overs 

To these two points:

1 - Speaking specifically of Vortex, they have optics manufactured in China, the Philippines and Japan.  The ones made in Japan are the more expensive and usually better product through their lines.  Even Leupold has products made overseas.

 

2 - Christmas tree style reticles are very different and it's highly recommended to look through the optic you're choosing prior to purchase.  The H59 is very busy.  Also, most of these Christmas tree-style reticles are useless at the lower magnifications.

 

What is your intent for 1K yard shooting?  Do you want little bugholes or are you only trying to impact the target?  The reason I ask is because this can determine how much magnification you require as well as the reticle.  The vast majority of PRS/NRL shooters use the 12-15 or maybe 18 magnification range for majority of the matches.  They're not trying to shoot bugholes and the wider field of view allows faster acquisition of different targets.

 

Glass is not the only important feature for PRS/NRL style shooting.  Tracking is just as important.  There are some high dollar scopes with great glass that can't reliably track.

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Optics.....you get what you pay for. Cheap....is usually junk. On all my hunting rifles (I do shoot out to 5-600 yards), I use nothing but Leupolds. Their quality and factory service is hard to beat. I have shot out to 1000 yards with several of my hunting rifles, but will not shoot any animal at that range. Too many chances of wounding the animal, just too many variables for me.

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Posted (edited)

Because of who uses my range for training (I have multiple ranges out to 1 mile) I see almost every descent long range rifle scope. Some have problems with tracking which is a HUGE problem if you are an old style turret turner. All the teams use only Horus reticles. I have 37's, 58's, 59's and the new tremor 3's. As chief Rick said you need MIL reticles. I use a Hensoldt spotting scope with a Horus mil reticle to call second shot corrections. When it comes to really high end scopes you actually do get what you pay for. The special teams only use Nightforce scopes. They have a few S&B's still. The new force wide scope for the normal sniper teams is the Leupold 7-35X56. With the Tremor 3.  I have one. It has some minor elevation tracking problems but until you reach 1000 you don't need to turn the turrets. The ONLY scopes I have seen that NEVER have tracking issues are the Nightforce ones. S&B fixed their parallax issues a few years ago and they usually track very well. The new vortex Razors are pretty good but their in house reticles only divide to .5 mil. You need .2 mil divisions for precision shooting. The same with every other companies reticles except the Horus ones. (since Nightforce bought Horus a few years ago they are licensing the reticles to many mfgs.).  The reason the teams that can have anything they want use Nightforce is because they are incredibly clear, built like a tank, and track perfectly.  I have 3 of the 7-35X56 with Tremor 3's and the only scope that compares is the new S&B's with the Tremor3's. With ANY scope other than a S&B or a Nightforce you MUST do a tall target test to see where it tracks.

     If you are hurting for money the Leu 7-35X56 is good. Just do a tall target. The same with the Vortex Razor.  After that you take your chances.

    Another issue I will add is that in almost ALL scopes except Nightforce the reticles are NOT perfectly vertical in the tube. Nightforce sets the bottom of the tube on a block and glues the reticle glass in perfectly square to it. So even if a scope tracks perfectly it will still drift left or right when tracking if the reticle isn't square to the tracking screws.

Edited by Happy Jack, SASS #20451
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While I am boring you on precision rifle setup I will add:  You MUST have a scope level matching the reticle.  Even the best shooters have about 3 degrees of natural cant. At 1000 that is another 4" added to your wind call. (almost all long range misses are due to wind) It is important to understand that the scope reticle does NOT have to be vertical/level with the rifle receiver/barrel. Many offset their scopes to compensate for natural cant. The scope level however MUST be perfectly aligned with the reticle. I use a 5# plumb bob on a 1/8" cable painted white. Perfectly align the reticle vertical with the plumb line. We only use scope mounted levels as the reticle is almost never perfect with the receiver. We only use levels from Accuracy 1st. or Flatline Ops. Both are great but I prefer the Accuracy1st. as it is intuitive. Any level is better than none, Vortex, Holland, etc.

    I mentioned the importance of a tall target test earlier. When setting one up is is imperative that the distance from the target to the scope TURRETS be exactly measured. I use a 300ft. tape measure even though I have a $8000 PLRF 25 laser. If the distance isn't exactly 100yds. there are formulas to adjust for the distance. Try to get to the closest foot.

   After the rifle is setup then you only have to worry about your shooting ability and ammo:P  Spin drift, coriolis, aerodynamic jump, muzzle velocity (SD should be less than 10), bullet BC variance, rifle actual accuracy (need at least 40 rounds to determine).  All the previous are deterministic. The big unknown is WIND. Atmospheric data and holds are usually found with a Kestrel 5700AB and it will read wind WHERE the meter is but NOT downrange. 

Good LUCK and have fun :FlagAm:

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I listen to a podcast called bangsteel.  They are long range instructors in Virginia I think.  They did a show on scopes in July 2020 where they talked about what they had seen come through their school.  Bottom line, they like Night Force the best.  But for a sub $300 scope, they said to go with Burris XTR, SWFA, or Leupold 3-9.  In that order. 

 

 

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We bought a PCC rifle for Pro Steel.

It had a Vortex.

It was used, it stopped working as soon as we used it.

Sent it back for repairs, and less than 2 weeks had a new one at the house. The old one was unrepairable.

Cost? $zero

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I emailed by long range buddy who eats and sleeps long range, the 1000 yard type of shooting.  According to him, go with this and you will not be sorry.

NightForce NXS 5.5-22x56mm Scope, ZeroStop .250 MOA Illuminated Moar Reticle (C434).

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