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Chamber flags, plugs, etc.?


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Have you run into any ranges where the owners make you use chamber flags and clear indicators when not right on the firing line?

If you have what did you use?

I have heard of some ranges where you have to take your handguns out and walk around with empty holsters.

 

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Have been involved with 4H Western Heritage (their version of CAS) for several years.

Policy has always been (as far as I know) chamber flags (usually some commercial version but sometimes heavy gauge weed wacker line run down the bore and out the ejection port). These kids don't use holsters, everything staged on the props and help from adult volunteers to get the guns from the loading table to the stage to the unloading tables. Hand guns are left in cases or in boxes at gun carts. Rifles/shotguns are left in racks with the aforementioned indicators. System works well.

Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

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Posted (edited)

Any match that I have ever shot right there at the Heartland Range at Grand Island, besides SASS matches, has required the use of yellow chamber flags.

Not anywhere else.

 

Edited by Fence Cutter
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I'm a RSO at my local club (with open public shooting). 

 

I'll go out on a limb here and say that the vast majority (99.99%) of our SASS kin embrace the safety culture of our sport and have some of the best firearm discipline out there.  We follow regimented safety rules for shooting, and at the loading/unloading table.  During my range's matches  (Including SASS) muzzle control policies are left up to match directors (who must also be RSO qualified) and match specific discipline guidance.  For SASS at my range,  no flags needed, carry em' empty,  cause we have a system in place to protect each other.  

 

The general public however, even 'club members' are another story.  People from all walks of life come to 'practice' shooting. These folks have varying  educations, upbringings, experience with firearms, discipline, morale compasses, behavioral temperaments, and the list goes on and on..  My hands are full keeping EVERYONE safe on and off the line at the range.  For general 'Open' shooting, we require chamber flags for any firearm pointed downrange during 'cold range' time while folks are downrange addressing targets.   We provide a flag (zip tie through a piece of bright colored foam sheet folded over) for those without them.  The chamber flags won't stop a complete fool, but they do help to notify me, AND THE SHOOTERS NEIGHBORS that something is amiss and to contact me to assist. Many hands might make light work, but many eyes keep us alive.

 

 

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We use one on Shortcake's SxS.  Her hands are small and if the shotgun snapped shut walking to the line or to the unloading table, It would be nearly impossible for her to stop and work the lever to open it with one hand (the other carrying the rifle). So we just want to be safe and avoid any possible appearance being unsafe.

 

It's just a dummy 12 gauge shell with some tape to keep it halfway out of the chamber so the barrels don't close.

 

She likes it, she can safely walk with her long guns, and avoid related safety issues.

ShotgunChamberPlug.jpg

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a lot of the high school trap teams require it , but open and empty is our range policy , net encountered any SASS events requiring it yet , 

 

i have a number of different flags and ive always had some in my cart because it started ife as a three gun cart , but i have not used them for SASS yet , see no issue with it should a range ask for it - like i said a have a number of them in different styles i could use .............a lot of guns come with them these days if you buy new 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/30/2021 at 10:48 AM, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Have never run into the practice.  Would only run into it once though.

I don't understand this attitude.  You would refuse to go to  shoots because of such a small issue?   I can't speak for other clubs/places but I can assure you any and all "odd" or irritating "rules" we have been required to follow in my shooting clubs have INVARIABLY been imposed from "above".  From the overall Range management of a large and diverse shooting facility. (At which we are just one of a dozen or more groups onsite)     What would you have clubs in that position DO?   Stand on a (minor) principle...and lose range access...or what? 

Edited by Constable Nelson #11784
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What about people that reholster at the loading table with crossdraw holsters? They are flagging people as they walk to the fireing line in the world of NRA saftey according to my RSO training. 

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23 hours ago, Dusty Coalhopper said:

I'm a RSO at my local club (with open public shooting). 

 

I'll go out on a limb here and say that the vast majority (99.99%) of our SASS kin embrace the safety culture of our sport and have some of the best firearm discipline out there.  We follow regimented safety rules for shooting, and at the loading/unloading table.  During my range's matches  (Including SASS) muzzle control policies are left up to match directors (who must also be RSO qualified) and match specific discipline guidance.  For SASS at my range,  no flags needed, carry em' empty,  cause we have a system in place to protect each other.  

 

The general public however, even 'club members' are another story.  People from all walks of life come to 'practice' shooting. These folks have varying  educations, upbringings, experience with firearms, discipline, morale compasses, behavioral temperaments, and the list goes on and on..  My hands are full keeping EVERYONE safe on and off the line at the range.  For general 'Open' shooting, we require chamber flags for any firearm pointed downrange during 'cold range' time while folks are downrange addressing targets.   We provide a flag (zip tie through a piece of bright colored foam sheet folded over) for those without them.  The chamber flags won't stop a complete fool, but they do help to notify me, AND THE SHOOTERS NEIGHBORS that something is amiss and to contact me to assist. Many hands might make light work, but many eyes keep us alive.

 

 

 

What Dusty stated is the pretty much the same at the local club. On the public line there are some less than knowledgeable on the issue of safety people who own firearms. The flag just adds a small layer of visual safety and the line RO's check each firearm for the flag when the line goes cold and before anyone goes downrange.

 

I've never seen the use of chamber flags, or the like, at any SASS match nor have I heard of any SASS match requesting it. I don't believe it is necessary at a SASS match as stringent and redundant safety rules are already in place.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Canto Kid said:

What about people that reholster at the loading table with crossdraw holsters? They are flagging people as they walk to the fireing line in the world of NRA saftey according to my RSO training. 

 

Flagging? Do you mean sweeping?

 

If cross draw holsters are sweeping people on the walk to the firing line, then I would suspect that the angle of the holster is a big no no.

 

 

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OK.  How are you gonna "Flag" a Lever Rifle, action open, in the gun cart.  How you gonna "Flag" a Shotgun, open and empty in the gun cart??

 

Flagging at the shooting benches on a common firing line or "range" is a different matter.

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21 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

OK.  How are you gonna "Flag" a Lever Rifle, action open, in the gun cart.  How you gonna "Flag" a Shotgun, open and empty in the gun cart??

 

 

You'd be closing the actions as much as you could to secure the flags. 

 

I remember years back, when just starting this game, there were a few people who made these long flags.  Basically two long ass dowel rods secured to a small block, and went in from the muzzle, and were long enough to stick out from the chamber end.  I always thought that was odd, and a bit much.  But then I guess people do what they need to do to remind themselves of safety first.

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im not a proponent of the flags , yes i have a bunch of various styles and could make due if required , but ill be first on the bandwagon of "we have them open and empty" and proven so before and after we shoot , i see no real need , i will follow range rules if needed tho 

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On 6/1/2021 at 9:45 PM, Canto Kid said:

What about people that reholster at the loading table with crossdraw holsters? They are flagging people as they walk to the fireing line in the world of NRA saftey according to my RSO training. 

How can you sweep someone with a HOLSTERED pistol?

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6 hours ago, Constable Nelson #11784 said:

How can you sweep someone with a HOLSTERED pistol?

 

Improper holster angle, typically a cross draw. 

 

I have seen it a few times during my time in this game.  

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Th M1 Garand club and indoor range [ZSA match] that I’ve shot naturally required rifle flags [semiautos] but never at any cas match that I’ve ever been to. 

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If you shoot Bench Rest and belong to either IBS or GBA, then you know that for rifles which the bolts can be removed, you remove them when not shooting.  If you are shooting a firearm where you cannot easily remove the bolt, then chamber flags are required.

 

It is just common sense safety.

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On 6/1/2021 at 9:17 AM, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

When I first started SASS, I was surprised to see people carrying muzzles up.   The only organized shooting I'd done prior to CAS was trap shooting, and there the rule was muzzle down.

I had some brief shotgun training from an FBI instructor a number of years ago, and their rule (with an 870) was muzzle up, above head height.  

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I’ve shot a plenty of places that ran a hot range. If the firearm was on your person  it was expected that the magazine was in and one was in the chamber.  If you couldn’t be trusted to act safely under those conditions you didn’t belong on the range to begin with. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/4/2021 at 10:23 PM, Cemetery said:

 

Improper holster angle, typically a cross draw. 

 

I have seen it a few times during my time in this game.  

But its in a holster?    It can't sweep anyone.    If it can, then we are all sweeping ourselves all the time with our holstered pistols, surely? 

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