Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Which wad for Federal Top Gun hulls?


Recommended Posts

I recently acquired a whole gob of once fired Federal Top Gun hulls. I normally load 13 grains of Titewad and a Claybuster 7/8 ounce wad in Remington Gun Club and Winchester AA hulls. Since I have a boatload of these Federal hulls it would be nice to find a load to use in them. My Lyman shotgun manual doesn't list Top Gun hulls, and I'm cheap enough that I really don't want to buy another book just for one hull, so I'm appealing to the fine folks on this forum for information: which wad would work the best with my newly acquired Federal hulls? I'm thinking best crimp, etc. 

 

Thanks in advance for any help I can get here, folks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 said:

I recently acquired a whole gob of once fired Federal Top Gun hulls. I normally load 13 grains of Titewad and a Claybuster 7/8 ounce wad in Remington Gun Club and Winchester AA hulls. Since I have a boatload of these Federal hulls it would be nice to find a load to use in them. My Lyman shotgun manual doesn't list Top Gun hulls, and I'm cheap enough that I really don't want to buy another book just for one hull, so I'm appealing to the fine folks on this forum for information: which wad would work the best with my newly acquired Federal hulls? I'm thinking best crimp, etc. 

 

Thanks in advance for any help I can get here, folks!

 

Federal Top guns are a straight wall hull unlike the Gun Clubs which are a tapered hull.  Those Claybuster wads are optimized for tapered hulls.

 

If they are the ones with the steel heads and not the brass colored ones reload them. The newer ones with the brass colored steel heads I don't reload as the metal is really thin.

 

I have never reloaded them with smokeless powder I use them for my BP loads. I also resize the heads with a collet style sizer. Have never had one hang up since I started doing that.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Thanks, Larson. That's what I was looking for!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, the Top Gun with a brass head can be reloaded, but you have to be REAL careful to set the hull straight in the sizer die, or the sizer die can catch and tear the brass-colored head cover.   You might want to size and deprime a batch of hulls first, then inspect any for torn brass, then continue on loading from there after tossing the torn ones. 

 

And none of the Federal hulls are real well suited to Cowboy loads, because they have so much volume to fill up to get a good crimp.  That large volume often gets filled with POWDER by the Federal factory, and that makes for some FAST loads, especially with 7/8 ounce of shot.    Sorta like taking a VW bug and stuffing a 454 GM motor in it - lots of power and a light weight car (payload).

 

There is data for the Federal Gold Medal Grand target hull in most loading books and tables, and that will work in the new cheapo Top Gun hulls pretty well.  But there's not much LIGHT (aka, Cowboy) loading data.

 

Generally you want to use a straight-wad wad.  If you are planning on 7/8 ounce shot, use the ClayBuster 1 ounce straight wall wad, CB-6100.  That uses the same loading data as the Win WAA12L wad listed in many tables.  CB's version is Neon Green in color.

There's a loading data sheet included in the bag of Claybuster 6100 wads.  BUT, no loads lighter than 1 ounce of shot.

 

Here's the slowest load from the Hodgdon on-line data table with Win 209 primer and Titewad powder and 7/8 ounce shot in the WAA12L:

Federal Gold Medal Grand hull (same dimensions as your Top Gun hulls with the white plastic base wad)

Hodgdon  Titewad   19.1 grains          

 

 

Win 209 primer

Win WAA12L (or CB-6100) wad

7/8 ounce shot

 

Makes 1275 FPS and 7,000 PSI

 

Now, you MIGHT be able to back that powder down to maybe 15 or 16 grains and still have enough stack height to crimp the hull.  And not have the load get squibby.  I don't load Titewad enough to know how it works in Cowboy level loads in the Federal hulls.

 

You can also find data on the Hodgdon site for Fed 12S0 wads, which are also made for straight-wall hulls.  About the same performance levels.

 

As with most cowboy level shot loads, you are kinda working in an area where the factory doesn't help you much.   But, fortunately, they are very low pressure loads.  Won't blow up any gun, the problems are usually either squibby loads or loads that you can't crimp well.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

top gun hulls torn by resizing die.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, Joe. I did some experimenting this afternoon, not very successfully. I have some Federal 12SO wads and the crimp is even worse with those than they are with my Claybuster wads. I may try cutting some of the hulls and roll crimping them and see how that goes. It's more of a hassle but if it'll let me use up the hulls it might be worth it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find loading Federal hulls to be quite a bit fussy.  They do need different loading equipment adjustment than the Rem and Win hulls.  I reserve a separate loader just for Federal loading.  Ouch.

 

Quote

crimp is even worse

 

That's not enough description to let us help you.  Got pictures?  

 

A crimp problem would not be enough to make me convert over to roll crimping.  That's just me, perhaps.

 

You realize that you found a large lot of Top Gun hulls because very few folks even TRY to reload them, don't you?  I load 'em because I;m stubborn about learning how to load them when other folks have given up.    And after 2 months of on-and-off testing, I now have a clay target load that works in them, but it uses Ramshot Competition powder (very bulky, almost up with Trail Boss) rather than Titewad, or I'd suggest you try it.

 

good luck, GJ

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 said:

Thanks, Joe. I did some experimenting this afternoon, not very successfully. I have some Federal 12SO wads and the crimp is even worse with those than they are with my Claybuster wads. I may try cutting some of the hulls and roll crimping them and see how that goes. It's more of a hassle but if it'll let me use up the hulls it might be worth it. 

 

Find an adjustable charge bar if you can.

 

If you have too much shot, you can drill and tap a hole into your existing charge bar that extends into the shot chamber. The insert a set screw the protrudes into the shot cavity. By varying how much you can decrease your shot charge slightly to get the stack height right.

 

If too little go up one size and drill it. 

 

I would start with a #10 set screw and if it isn't enough adjustment the enlarge the hole to a #12 They come in different lengths.

 

Drill from the end so you have plenty of material. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can also use a dried red kidney bean to adjust the shot volume, or a dried pea, or ...........  :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/28/2021 at 8:09 AM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

That's not enough description to let us help you.  Got pictures?  

 

 

Yeah, I should have done a better job of describing it. Mostly the crimp caves in with the current load of Titewad and the 12SO wad. Gaping hole between the petals of the crimp. 

 

I did some research in my Lyman shotgun manual and saw that a one ounce load of shot with 15.5 grains of 700-x is in the book for Federal Gold Medal hulls. If I don't have the right charge bar and bushing I have an adjustable charge bar. I may put it in my press and adjust it to the above dimensions and give that a try. It's starting to get personal now... :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those symptoms are just like "no where near enough height of components"   Need a taller wad than the 12S0 most likely for use with what little bit of Titewad you must be using.

 

The CB6100 (neon green) or the CB0178 (gray) wad will be taller.  The 6100 is the one made for 1 ounce of shot.   But if you really need height to fill up the hull, the CB0178 will push the shot up even higher, even if it is a little smaller diameter than the Federal hulls might like for perfect combustion.

 

The best quide to use to get a good match on these light loads that aren't in any normal manual is to get the shot level right to the bottom of the crimp petals folds on the hull when you drop the shot.  Picture shows a really good level for shot to be at before you crimp-start.   That level of shot will normally let you make a good crimp.

 

When you try to seek help, you get the best help if you tell folks ALL the components you are using.  I'm still not sure if you are dropping 7/8 or 1 ounce of shot, for example.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

dillon SL900 shot height check.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7/8 ounce of shot in the CB0178-12 wad. Which doesn't do a good job of sealing the hull giving poor combustion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.