How is primer shortage affecting your shooting or your matches?

[Jackrabbit Joe #414]

Well I gotta tell yah pilgrims. "So Far So Good" Still able to continue.  Thanks to my better half for keeping track. My QA/QC partner.

[Dantankerous]

Shortage ain't bothered me at all. Of course it's because due to issues beyond ny control I've shot ONE match and ONE monthly in the last almost 18 months.

 

Got plenty of supplies ready to go when I need them. Hopefully soon.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

Couple questions for those who advocate shooting 5-5-2 for a couple stages in a six stage match.

You do realize that effectively you are only saving one stage worth of ammo, right?

If your normal stages are a relatively common 4 or 5 step movement between firearms and you go with say a 15 or 20 foot run between firearms to "change things up" your stage times will likely fall into the neighborhood of under 10 seconds for your better shooters thus widening the gap between the very good and those "just for fun" folks who normally shoot in the mid 30's and up. Sounds like a prescription for discouraging shooters rather than making them feel good about saving ammo for the next match. Not the intent I am sure but what other "changes" would/could be proposed to make each stage remain a challenge for all of your shooters?

In the last "shortage" some of the clubs I shot at reduced from 6 stages to 5 AND reduced round count by eliminating the rifle on one stage and the pistols on another to "save ammo". I am a social butterfly and talk to as many pards as I can (CAS is my family/outlet) and never once heard anyone say these options were a good idea or something that they felt was really saving ammo for the next match. I did hear many say that reductions destroyed the "feel and flow" of the match and they would come back once the clubs got back to normal (though many did not return for a lot of reasons).

Personally I love to shoot with anyone anytime anywhere but for some clubs it is near 300 miles one way for me and for a monthly I want to maximize value for my effort and would rather wait than attend a partial or reduced match thus saving both my gas and six stages of ammo. I know that some others are ok with 5 stages and reduced round counts (some clubs that was the norm for a lot of years) just not my cup of tea.

Regards

   

Gateway Kid

[Cypress Sun]

14 minutes ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

Couple questions for those who advocate shooting 5-5-2 for a couple stages in a six stage match.

You do realize that effectively you are only saving one stage worth of ammo, right?

If your normal stages are a relatively common 4 or 5 step movement between firearms and you go with say a 15 or 20 foot run between firearms to "change things up" your stage times will likely fall into the neighborhood of under 10 seconds for your better shooters thus widening the gap between the very good and those "just for fun" folks who normally shoot in the mid 30's and up. Sounds like a prescription for discouraging shooters rather than making them feel good about saving ammo for the next match. Not the intent I am sure but what other "changes" would/could be proposed to make each stage remain a challenge for all of your shooters?

In the last "shortage" some of the clubs I shot at reduced from 6 stages to 5 AND reduced round count by eliminating the rifle on one stage and the pistols on another to "save ammo". I am a social butterfly and talk to as many pards as I can (CAS is my family/outlet) and never once heard anyone say these options were a good idea or something that they felt was really saving ammo for the next match. I did hear many say that reductions destroyed the "feel and flow" of the match and they would come back once the clubs got back to normal (though many did not return for a lot of reasons).

Personally I love to shoot with anyone anytime anywhere but for some clubs it is near 300 miles one way for me and for a monthly I want to maximize value for my effort and would rather wait than attend a partial or reduced match thus saving both my gas and six stages of ammo. I know that some others are ok with 5 stages and reduced round counts (some clubs that was the norm for a lot of years) just not my cup of tea.

Regards

   

Gateway Kid

 

I have not been affected by the shortage as I learned my lesson the first time around by stocking up when I could.

 

I can see the reasoning for using less ammo in the match, allowing .22's and I see the reasoning for choosing not to go to a 5-5-2. I would be in the latter category. It's just not worth 4 hours of drive time, $50 worth of gas and $20 of match fee to shoot 60 rounds of centerfire and 12 round of shotgun cumulating in 1 to 1.5 minutes of trigger time. For those who do, more power to them and I sincerely hope you have fun. I'll see you when the club returns to normal.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

No effect.  Learned my lesson after the last shortage.  I keep enough components of hand for a minimum of 3 Seasons and usually more.  This situation will resolve itself before it becomes a problem.  One exception, But I was ablate fix that.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

On 5/21/2021 at 12:01 PM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Don't think anyone is saying "10-10-4 or I'm walking"... Hello strawman! But reducing stages to 5-5-2 is a waste of time for most and has nothing to do with mixing things up.

Wasn’t what I was suggesting OR what we’ve been doing.  No strawman.  Thanks.

[Three Foot Johnson]

No shortage here. 

[Doc Shapiro]

I wasn't shooting during the last shortage, so didn't notice it.  Now I'm short on primers.  So I'm just not shooting as much.  Our local matches are showing lower attendance.  It's turning into an issue, even if several of you are well stocked.

[Baltimore Ed]

I only do one match a month, practice is only a couple of mags worth of rifle or mags/cylinders of handgun ammo to verify whatever gun I’m using and my reloads prior to the shoot. I had hoped to get into doing 2 matches month, a WASA and a SASS but not now. We shot our BAMM yesterday with 10 shooters. We shot 60 rifle-60-handgun [most shot DA revolvers but a couple used 1911s] and about 24 sg’s. I wouldn’t attend a match that did 5-5-2 for any stages. All the work required to haul and set it up and then put away all of that steel, you’ve got to be kidding. I’d go to a .22 cas match before I’d cut the round count. Could even do a 7 stage match with no rifle brass to pick up. 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

I just ran a poll for one local club regarding adults using .22s at local matches.  The overwhelming response was that it was OK and we needed to start soon as many members were almost out of primers.  We learned during previous shortages that some members who quit shooting CAS for awhile never return.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

10 hours ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

Wasn’t what I was suggesting OR what we’ve been doing.  No strawman.  Thanks.

The Strawman argument that I was referring to was the one that you made: "everything HAS to be 10-10-4 or I'm walking". No one made that argument to the best of my recollection.

 

So since you said that you "Mix things up", please do tell. 

 

Phantom

[Silver Sam, SASS #34718L]

I'm good thru the end of the year.... If it continues into '22  I'll be gettin' a little worried.

I'm still shooting just as often as before but couple of changes I've done is to shoot my C&B's and my 22's  a little more often.

Plus we started a "Pike" category at two of the Clubs I regularly attend.......

That way we can shoot CAS with the WB ammo we already had made before this crazyness started...........

 

 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

When I run out of primers.

 

 

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

9 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

The Strawman argument that I was referring to was the one that you made: "everything HAS to be 10-10-4 or I'm walking". No one made that argument to the best of my recollection.

 

So since you said that you "Mix things up", please do tell. 

 

Phantom

As a stage writer, I try to accommodate even our shooters who are less prepared.

[Rye Miles #13621]

29 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

When I run out of primers.

 

 

I got an old Lionel set I could drag out! The locomotive, coal car and caboose are from 1948!! Thanks for the idea!

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

26 minutes ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

As a stage writer, I try to accommodate even our shooters who are less prepared.

What does that mean exactly?

 

Come on - some specifics maybe?

 

Phantom

[Utah Bob #35998]

Not at all. Haven’t shot a match since 2019. 

[Snakebite]

Due to a (hopefully a short term) issue I've not been shooting lately. I do have the supplies however. I believe that the lack of supplies is indeed having some effect on the number of folks turning out to shoot. But IMO there is another situation that is also effecting the game.... many folks just stopped shooting last year because of the Covid Situation. It's sad to say but taking that year off has made it much easier for some folks to just stay away. Again, it is only my opinion, but I believe that some of those folks will not be returning to the game. Just looking around the internet at some of the clubs that post their scores will show you that the number of shooters is quite low.  Not sure how this is all going to play out, but one thing I am certain of is this: We will never recover if we don't get people into positions that are team players. Apathy is hard to overcome.   

[Johnny Knight]

Morning all,

As a brand new SASS member, I have no context to judge how the local clubs have been affected by the primer shortage.  What I can comment on as a reloader is that I've been able to start building a small inventory of 45 Colt and 44 Mag for the pistols and rifle I'm shooting.  It has required scouring the local gun stores and asking friends to keep an eye out for primers when they can.  Having been involved with a large reenactment group, I've watched that group implode as folks got out of the habit of going to events, combined with too much time on the keyboard which invited all sorts of bs,  One way that we managed to help mitigate that with our local group was to plan a bit more social time at the events.  Just simply firing up the bbq and having a few tasty beverages (after the shooting of course) went a long way to help maintain the sense of camaraderie.  While shooting the stages is certainly an important part of this, and I'm looking forward to my second match, it has helped to 'add value' to the events by planning a little social time so that folks want to make the trip.  Just a thought.

Johnny

[Baltimore Ed]

Johnny, a good idea except for the alcohol. Everyone in my club also has a ccw. We usually hang around and bs for an hour after everything is put away but as some have a longer drive home they don’t stay too long. We usually have a summer cookout and a Christmas party at a nice seafood restaurant. Didn’t do any of that last year though. Here’s one ‘BC’, before covid. Ho Ho Ho.

[bgavin]

I was given permission by my match director to shoot 22LR.
I am adequately stocked in center fire components, but cannot replenish them.
My range is too far away for practice, so I don't get any.... and it shows.
 

[Johnny Knight]

Well, the tasty beverages will depend on circumstance, of course.  When we have a get together at a place I've got out in the country, I've got a cabin and crash space for anyone who wants to indulge to make sure that the weekend ends well.

[Hashknife Cowboy]

Overall match rounds has not suffered, it is the practice trigger time that has.  I probably don't shoot more than 50 rounds per month of .45 Colt .I shoot more .22's than ever simply because I have the ammo and comparable guns.  

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Even previous to Covid and the component shortage, some of the clubs here had an additional optional stage.   Sometimes it was during oppressive heat months when the normal 6 went to 5.  That seems (to me) to be a better option than shortening stages to 5-5-2, for instance.  So, a 6 stage match could become a 5 stage with option for the 6th, scored separately.   Or even a 4-stage match with two optional stages.

[Warden Callaway]

Back in the winter I questioned several of our most regular shooters about cutting down number of stages from 6 to 5.  Having stages with no shotgun or no rifle to save round count.  The result of the spot survey was that they didn't want water down the stages.  I take it they invest a day coming to a match,  they wanted to shoot.   

 

I wrote match stages as if there were no shortage.  I talked with the match director about allowing shoot "senior Buckaroo" with 22s or ranger or Dale Evens but he never communicate the idea to the group.

 

At our last match,  the match director revised my stages on the fly to reduce shotgun to two shots per stage.  There was at least one person concerned they would run out of shotgun shells and not find more. They shot factory loads as most do.  The target and field loads that I see available are 3x what they were before the rush.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said:

Back in the winter I questioned several of our most regular shooters about cutting down number of stages from 6 to 5.  Having stages with no shotgun or no rifle to save round count.  The result of the spot survey was that they didn't want water down the stages.  I take it they invest a day coming to a match,  they wanted to shoot.   

 

I wrote match stages as if there were no shortage.  I talked with the match director about allowing shoot "senior Buckaroo" with 22s or ranger or Dale Evens but he never communicate the idea to the group.

 

At our last match,  the match director revised my stages on the fly to reduce shotgun to two shots per stage.  There was at least one person concerned they would run out of shotgun shells and not find more. They shot factory loads as most do.  The target and field loads that I see available are 3x what they were before the rush.

Great...then this game will get to the point where it's not worth the time any more...

 

Guess it doesn't pay to be prepared.

 

Think I'll buy another boat...

 

Phantom

[Doc Shapiro]

1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Great...then this game will get to the point where it's not worth the time any more...

 

Guess it doesn't pay to be prepared.

 

Think I'll buy another boat...

 

Phantom

 

I bought another bass guitar :-p

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

21 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

I bought another bass guitar :-p

Most folks won't admit that they own a Bass...

 

[Jackalope]

8 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

...

 

Think I'll buy another boat...

 

Phantom

 

I bet all the folks on the boat forum are glad to hear that.

 

[Matthew Duncan]

9 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Great...then this game will get to the point where it's not worth the time any more...

 

Guess it doesn't pay to be prepared.

 

Think I'll buy another boat...

 

Phantom

I'm not rich like you and could only afford a scope for an AR.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

On 5/23/2021 at 7:32 PM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

What does that mean exactly?

 

Come on - some specifics maybe?

 

Phantom

It means we've had some stages with things such as start with rifle empty and load 3 rounds on the clock, or a stage with a texas star and a soda popper where we shoot 10 pistol and 6 shotgun, but no rifle.  Or it's easy enough to reduce rifle to 7 or 8 rounds without it seeming like you are reducing anything much.  Each stage that has reduced round count has something else added to keep it fun and interesting for our shooters.  We, also, might throw in a team shoot in place of a stage and have each shooter only use one gun.  Or have had stage (which didn't count in overall scores) where we would shoot only 1 round out of each gun and time is recorded, reload and do it again with the difference in times being your score.

 

As I've said, our shooters have all enjoyed the variety and we have had zero complaints.  Here is an example from March:

 

 

March 20, 2021 Orange.pdf

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

2 hours ago, Matthew Duncan said:

I'm not rich like you and could only afford a scope for an AR.

Sorry...should have been more precise.

 

It's the Yacht forum.

 

[bgavin]

11 hours ago, Doc Shapiro said:

I bought another bass guitar :-p

I bought bass speaker cab... actually a 12+6 full range, for keys and bass.
This is my first new one... I usually roll my own.

Are the Irregulars shooting this Saturday?

[Ron "Ironhead" Smith]

Hasn't affected me at all. We've been having shortages of one kind or another every few years since the late 80s, those who haven't learned by now should just suck it up and deal with it and maybe they'll know better next time.

[Baltimore Ed]

People never learn, that’s why politicians can stay in office until they die and things never get better. It takes conscious effort for folks to stock up ahead of need. The roof never leaks—until it rains.