+Someone needs to write a book

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

Mask Hysteria: The true story of how the CDC botched the handling of the Co-Vid pandemic and made it a political tool 

[Big Jake1001]

The Grand experiment to see how easy it is to scare everyone into compliance and shut down half the country. Can't go to the Beaches, Park, Golf Courses, Movies, Ball Games. Cruise Ships, But leave other OPEN. Open Mic in the White House catches two guys talking how it's nowhere as Bad as they said it was and about the same as the FLU as far as Deaths ever year. 

 

Just sayin'

Big Jake 1001

[DocWard]

58 minutes ago, Big Jake1001 said:

Open Mic in the White House catches two guys talking how it's now where as Bad as they said it was and about the same as the FLU as far as Deaths ever year. 

 

I don't know who they were, and I haven't heard about the open mic, but they're wrong.
 

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu

Quote

 

COVID-19: There have been approximately 3,382,561 deaths reported worldwide. In the U.S, 586,157 people have died of COVID-19 between January 2020 and May 17, 2021.*

Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes every year worldwide.

 

 

If you do the math, influenza doesn't come close.

I won't get into the politics of it beyond this, other than to say yes, the issue has become greatly politicized. But the numbers speak for themselves.

[Cat Brules]

7 minutes ago, DocWard said:

 

I don't know who they were, and I haven't heard about the open mic, but they're wrong.
 

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu

 

If you do the math, influenza doesn't come close.

I won't get into the politics of it beyond this, other than to say yes, the issue has become greatly politicized. But the numbers speak for themselves.

Sincd there are so many lies and so much manipulation, WHY should we believe the numbers?   What do we actually have to compare the “numbers” to, in order to either verify or deny them?
 

Cat Brules

[DocWard]

1 minute ago, Cat Brules said:

Sincd there are so many lies and so much manipulation, WHY should we believe the numbers?   What do we actually have to compare the “numbers” to, in order to either verify or deny them?
 

Cat Brules

 

If you begin with the premise that the numbers given by reputable sources are the subject of lies or manipulation, then there's really no reason to begin a dialogue.   Until substantial evidence comes along suggesting otherwise, I will accept the numbers of medical providers and scientists.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

That would be one boring book.

[Pat Riot]

Not a big fan of Dr. Oz, but he said something early on that still remains true;

”When you mix politics with science and medicine, politics always wins…unfortunately.”

[watab kid]

yes indeed ---..”When you mix politics with science and medicine, politics always wins…unfortunately.”.."

 

you can believe what you want and ill believe the truth .........when we actually hear it , if ever , 

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

It's the same premise as "it's not who votes, it's who counts the votes".  If they lie about numbers or statistics they know the media will not call them on it. Free pass for their agenda.

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

15 hours ago, DocWard said:

 

If you begin with the premise that the numbers given by reputable sources are the subject of lies or manipulation, then there's really no reason to begin a dialogue.   Until substantial evidence comes along suggesting otherwise, I will accept the numbers of medical providers and scientists.

Here’s my view, untainted by reliably published statistics which seem to fall on deaf ears.
 

I look within my circle of friends, and their circle of friends. Only two degrees of personal separation from yours truly. 
 

In my entire life, no one in those circles has ever died of the flu, few have lost work days due to the flu, and nobody who’s had the flu has thought of it as little more more than a nuisance. 
 

Since January 2020, in those same circles, six friends have died, months of work time was lost, and those who had it thought of dying due to the pain from Covid. 
 

Those who try to say that Covid was a hoax would do well to not bring up that idea in my presence. 

[Tequila Shooter]

15 hours ago, DocWard said:

 

If you begin with the premise that the numbers given by reputable sources are the subject of lies or manipulation, then there's really no reason to begin a dialogue.   Until substantial evidence comes along suggesting otherwise, I will accept the numbers of medical providers and scientists.

 

16 minutes ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

Here’s my view, untainted by reliably published statistics which seem to fall on deaf ears.
 

I look within my circle of friends, and their circle of friends. Only two degrees of personal separation from yours truly. 
 

In my entire life, no one in those circles has ever died of the flu, few have lost work days due to the flu, and nobody who’s had the flu has thought of it as little more more than a nuisance. 
 

Since January 2020, in those same circles, six friends have died, months of work time was lost, and those who had it thought of dying due to the pain from Covid. 
 

Those who try to say that Covid was a hoax would do well to not bring up that idea in my presence. 

 

Gentlemen, while I’m not about to say that the flu is as bad as COVID-19 I will offer something to consider.  The reported number of deaths may not be all that accurate given the parameters of what could be called a COVID-19 death.  If someone had COVID six months ago and passed away from a heart attack hospitals were ruling it COVID related.   In my mind directly attributable to COVID and COVID related should be two separate  categories. 

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

16 hours ago, DocWard said:

 

If you begin with the premise that the numbers given by reputable sources are the subject of lies or manipulation, then there's really no reason to begin a dialogue.   Until substantial evidence comes along suggesting otherwise, I will accept the numbers of medical providers and scientists.

No disrespect intended Doc, but I am still trying to figure who is a reputable source is.  We have been lied to by just about every public source out there. 

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

36 minutes ago, Tequila Shooter said:

 

 

Gentlemen, while I’m not about to say that the flu is as bad as COVID-19 I will offer something to consider.  The reported number of deaths may not be all that accurate given the parameters of what could be called a COVID-19 death.  If someone had COVID six months ago and passed away from a heart attack hospitals were ruling it COVID related.   In my mind directly attributable to COVID and COVID related should be two separate  categories. 

I’m sure there were a few questionable attributions as to cause of death. Which is why I stuck with personal observations, or personal observations from people I trust. 
 

I saw my 30-year old son fetal from pain and fever. 
 

I took bland food to my friend and transferred at his door, because it was the only thing he could keep down.  And went to my car and cried because of his gaunt pallor. 
 

My neighbor, a Jamaican who immigrated to NYC and now lives in Knoxville, watched on zoom as his mother and four otherwise healthy relatives passed away on ventilators. 
 

Yes, there were confusing communications on many levels which can lead to skepticism. But those who claim that Covid was a hoax or an attempt at mass manipulation need to change the channel (or turn off the TV altogether), step away from the keyboard, and get to know their neighbors in person. 
 

 

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

I just finished an on-line "chat" with a close friend in Amritsar India.

She and her husband are MDs and have received both vaccinations as they are deemed essential.

They are working as much as 20 hours a day, with no ventilators,  no oxygen and no space in their hospitals.

The dead are stacked in the streets in some places, funeral pyres have depleted the available wood in other places.

Priti tells me they are facing a number of mutations of the virus that the vaccines are not able to counteract.

Stay safe Pards. This isn't over yet.

 

[Four-Eyed Buck,SASS #14795]

I've lost my son's father-in-law,and my one next door neighbor, so far. The lady my wife helps and her son got it, but got over it. My one grand daughter and her boy friend also contracted it, probably at work. It is real and in some cases CAN kill you. My wife has dodged the bullet at least twice during this, and with COPD and her cancer history was VERY lucky. I've done most of the shopping over the last year as she doesn't go out to many stores yet. Masks,yes, shots, both of us. We just didn't feel like poking the bear.

[DocWard]

6 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said:

 

 

Gentlemen, while I’m not about to say that the flu is as bad as COVID-19 I will offer something to consider.  The reported number of deaths may not be all that accurate given the parameters of what could be called a COVID-19 death.  If someone had COVID six months ago and passed away from a heart attack hospitals were ruling it COVID related.   In my mind directly attributable to COVID and COVID related should be two separate  categories. 

 

I have heard this claim numerous times, but I have yet to see someone give a concrete example of it occurring where COVID-19 wasn't a factor. Death certificates tend to list a causal chain of events leading to death, with a specific cause, along with contributing or aggravating factors. Along with these are other factors called "comorbidities." I'm far from an expert on the subject, but ultimately, the question posed is something along the lines of "but for COVID-19, would this person have died when they did." 

 

6 hours ago, Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 said:

No disrespect intended Doc, but I am still trying to figure who is a reputable source is.  We have been lied to by just about every public source out there. 

 

No worries. We need to make sure we're not confusing lies for updated recommendations based on the best current scientific thinking and misunderstandings, whether unintentional or not, about what the science is actually telling us. One thing that seems pretty clear is that 2020 saw a massive spike in the number of deaths over the past FIFTY years, both in the U.S. and worldwide. Now, we can often debate correlation vs. causation, but I don't think that is the case here. I tend to be a proponent of what many refer to as Occam's Razor, that is, the simplest explanation is often the best one. Considering the increase in the death rate coincides with the spread of COVID-19, the simplest explanation is that the majority of those deaths were caused by the virus. Yes, one can make the argument that some of those deaths were caused by people fearing to seek medical attention who might have otherwise survived, but it would take a significant amount of evidence to convince me that those made up such a huge number of deaths as to create a fifty year high.