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Why have I never noticed this before


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While examining the box and associated paperwork that came with a set of SASS NMV’s, I noticed that in 4 places Ruger referred to the caliber as 45LC.  Surely the SASS Wire CNN( Cartridge Name Nazi’s) have educated Ruger since I purchased these nine years ago. 

 

Oh well, I haven’t riled up anyone on the Wire in months  

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What is stamped on the barrel?  The engineers/designers/product managers specified that roll marking.

 

I doubt many of those knowledgeable folks did anything further with packaging materials design but make sure that there WAS a box and a manual. Let alone go over each page and label.

 

When a company participates in a standardization program like SAAMI, it usually is expected that the company follows the standardized cartridge nomenclature, just as well as complying with pressure capabilities and chamber and barrel dimensions.  IMHO.

 

good luck, GJ

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Note end labels on box in first pic and cal designation on Manila envelopes containing test fired cartridges in second pic(top)

 

268707D3-28FF-4333-B680-420C80F406A6.jpeg

97B07A60-417F-470B-A403-3D6E1C4211AA.jpeg

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3 hours ago, Mack Hacker, #60477 said:

a set of SASS NMV’s

What are those "New Model Vaqueros" you're talking about? There are only "Vaqueros" made by Ruger. 

Oh, you had to add something to the designation to avoid confusion.. ? ;)

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You can thank the Smith & Wesson Schofield for all the confusion between the Colt and Long Colt designation. 

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29 minutes ago, Tequila Shooter said:

You can thank the Smith & Wesson Schofield for all the confusion between the Colt and Long Colt designation. 

This, and maybe also the 45 ACP which is also some kind of "45 Colt", but this is only a guess...

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5 minutes ago, Equanimous Phil said:

 

 

37 minutes ago, Tequila Shooter said:

You can thank the Smith & Wesson Schofield for all the confusion between the Colt and Long Colt designation. 

 

5 minutes ago, Equanimous Phil said:

This, and maybe also the 45 ACP which is also some kind of "45 Colt", but this is only a guess...

Now we can add the .45 Cowboy Special to that too!:lol:

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If you want to honor the developer and how he named it, it's Cowboy .45 Special. 

 

good luck, GJ

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9 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said:

What are those "New Model Vaqueros" you're talking about? There are only "Vaqueros" made by Ruger. 

Oh, you had to add something to the designation to avoid confusion.. ? ;)

I think many started calling the SASS Model Vaquero 'new models'...

Funny how monicers stick, huh?

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All SASS Vaqueros are New Model Vaqueros  but so are all others since the introduction of the NMV, unless you count the 44SP chambered version that is not stamped “NÉW”.

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The new model Vaquero’s were called that to distinguish them from the Old  models which had a bigger frame. I thought we all knew that!:o

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7 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

The new model Vaquero’s were called that to distinguish them from the Old  models which had a bigger frame. I thought we all knew that!:o

Point is ... Ruger does NOT carry a NMV...it is simply a Vaquero (several different models)

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So, there are Vaqueros, old style and Vaqueros, new style? Works for me. There wasn't a World War one until we had a World War two, so sometimes things need to be re-named.

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10 minutes ago, Equanimous Phil said:

And when there are suddenly shorter 45 Colt cartridges around you call the longer ones LONG 

Not really,,,the shorter ones where/are schofields. There was no need to add the word long.

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3 minutes ago, Equanimous Phil said:

Needed? No.

 

Helpful? Yes. (espescially when they are interchangeable in just one direction) 

Schofields go in 45 colt gun and shoot fine,,,,45 colt does not fit in my schofields,,,,,no help from the name at all is needed. How does the added word “long” help?

 

 

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3 hours ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

Point is ... Ruger does NOT carry a NMV...it is simply a Vaquero (several different models)

True but they do distinguish between the two  because you can run much hotter loads in the Old Vaqueros. I believe there was even a warning not to shoot the same loads in the New Vaqueros, at least there was when first came out. That’s my point!

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58 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

True but they do distinguish between the two  because you can run much hotter loads in the Old Vaqueros. I believe there was even a warning not to shoot the same loads in the New Vaqueros, at least there was when first came out. That’s my point!

Sure. I get it.

Understand, with many newbies looking...and putting in New Model Vaquero into the search bar in the Ruger site...they will get a 'no match found' que....;)

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28 minutes ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

Sure. I get it.

Understand, with many newbies looking...and putting in New Model Vaquero into the search bar in the Ruger site...they will get a 'no match found' que....;)

I just did a search for New Model Vaquero and it came up in many places. It also came up as Vaquero with an explanation that it’s a new model. The newbies you talk about have to know the difference because of the size difference . The Old Model for instance is too big for my hands.

 

You’re right about the Ruger site though which is odd!

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Here's what i got when I searched for Ruger New Model Vaquero. 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=ruger+new+model+vaquero&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS718US725&oq=Ruger+new+model+VAQUERO&aqs=chrome.0.0l2j0i22i30.14805j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

 

No one should get confused as this explains it all! 

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In 1993 Ruger came out with the Vaquero. 
In 2005 they ruined…I mean, changed the model to New Vaquero. 
Now to add to confusion, which Ruger’s pretty darn good at doing they have now changed the names on the Vaquero series guns from New Vaquero to just “Vaquero”. 

Trying to figure out why gun companies do what they do is nerve racking. It’s like I’m playing cards with my brother’s kids or something’. ;)

 

Now, as for .45 Colt my original Vaquero and my New Vaquero, both say “.45 Cal.” On the frame. The word “Colt” is not roll marked onto the guns. 

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6 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

In 1993 Ruger came out with the Vaquero. 
In 2005 they ruined…I mean, changed the model to New Vaquero. 
Now to add to confusion, which Ruger’s pretty darn good at doing they have now changed the names on the Vaquero series guns from New Vaquero to just “Vaquero”. 

Trying to figure out why gun companies do what they do is nerve racking. It’s like I’m playing cards with my brother’s kids or something’. ;)

 

Now, as for .45 Colt my original Vaquero and my New Vaquero, both say “.45 Cal.” On the frame. The word “Colt” is not roll marked onto the guns. 

New Vaqero in 2005? I didn’t realize they’ve around that long. Time flies!

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3 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

New Vaqero in 2005? I didn’t realize they’ve around that long. Time flies!

Yep, I bought 2 of em in 2005. Really kind of ticked me off they changed the grip frame on them. 
 

I wish I would have bought me a couple more new original Vaqueros years ago. 

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14 hours ago, Marshall Matt Dillon said:

Schofields go in 45 colt gun and shoot fine,,,,45 colt does not fit in my schofields,,,,,no help from the name at all is needed. How does the added word “long” help?

You're right, "45 Colt" is basically well defined and undoubtedly the correct term, but please consider the following:

  1. Gasoline and diesel aren't interchangeable and do not even sound similar. Yet, there are plenty of people everyday putting the wrong fluid in their tank. So, don't underestimate people's stupidity which brings us to
  2. Murphy's law: "If it can go wrong it will go wrong!" Far too often...
  3. Probably everyone doing a shooting sport as a hobby knows exactly what models of firearm they have and what type of ammo they need. But back then in war, those six-guns were handed also to people not particularly interested in handguns, most not too educated, maybe couldn't even read. "Does your 45 accept the long ones" maybe was in fact a reasonable question.
  4. From Wikipedia: "While it is sometimes referred to as .45 Long Colt or .45 LC, to differentiate it from the very popular .45 ACP, and historically, the shorter .45 S&W Schofield, it was only an unofficial designation by Army quartermasters." I guess those quartermasters had their reasons and didn't do it just for fun...
  5. It's the same while plucking berries: You have to be aware that there are other similar ones to avoid getting the wrong ones. This may seem silly to someone participating in a shooting forum, but could you really blame a guy who picks a box of cartridges from the shelf that says .45 Colt on it for his very first pistol which is a 45 Colt? Because also a 1911 is a 45 Colt...

So yes, I still find that adding a "Long" to the ".45 Colt" isn't overly specific and can help avoid confusion or mistakes in some situations, and doesn't do any harm to anyone.

 

By the way, the OMV would have been the right analogy for this topic as they were defintely no Old Model Vaqueros until the smaller new model came out.

 

Equanimous Phil

 

 

 

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As far as .45 Long Colt goes, the first time I ever saw it referenced was to distinguish it from .45 ACP.  

 

But you know, there are a lot of guns, and calibers, that have multiple names, without regard to what they are "really" called.

Is it .32 S&W, or .32 S&W Short?
 

Is it .38 S&W Special, or just .38 Special?

 

When you mention .38/44, are you referring to the .38 Special loaded to hot levels that was the precursor to the .357 Magnum, or the 1880's era elongated .38 S&W?

Is it .45 S&W, or .45 Schofield.

.30 US Army, .30 Government, or .30-40 Krag?

.44-40, 38-40, 32-20, etc. or .XX WCF?

 

.30 Mauser or 7.63 Mauser?

 

7.62 or .30 Tokarev?

.32 Browning or .32 ACP?

New Model Vaquero?

 

Is it the Smith and Wesson Model 1875, or Model 3 Schofield?

What about Colt Artillery Model?

Colt Alaskan, or Colt M1902?

 

Oh, here's a good one.  Read the text of the National Firearms Act of 1934.   It talks about "silencers" quite a bit.  The word "suppressor" is never used once.   So legally speaking, the correct term IS silencer and "suppressor" is a made up term that has no legal meaning whatsoever.

So, when all is said and done, even thought it used to bother me, I don't really care about .45 Long Colt anymore.   It's just not worth it.  :)

 

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Oh yeah, I almost forgot,  "Fourth Generation" Colt.  Does this refer to when Colt started making cylinders with removable bushings again, or to the time back in the early 80's when it went from a Custom Shop only gun to regular production?   I remember seeing the latter when it first happened.

Of course, we all know there's no such thing as a 4th Gen Colt, and yet the term persists, with multiple meanings.

And doubly of course, now I am just being silly.

 

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I’ve always been amused by folks who are upset by the term .45 LC but have absolutely no problem with .32-20, .38-40 and .44-40. 
 

Seamus

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unofficial name: OMV ('Old' or 'Original' Model Vaquero) = official name: VAQUERO stamped on the frame of revolver (bigger frame - based off the Super Blackhawk frame)

unofficial name: NMV ('New" Model Vaquero) = official name: NEW VAQUERO stamped on the frame of the revolver (a wee smaller XR3 frame - close to original size of Colt SAA) 

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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10 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said:

Because also a 1911 is a 45 Colt...

No, it's not.  SAAMI agreed a 1911 semi-auto pistol is chambered in .45 Auto.  Even Colt stamps their pistol barrels with that designation (.45 Auto). 

 

This is a good example of what SAAMI was established to do - set standard cartridge sizes and names!, The firearms industry of 1920s was trying to remove confusion even then.  So the decision then (and now) is that .45 Colt was the revolver cartridge and .45 auto was the pistol cartridge.

 

good luck, GJ

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this thread made me go look at my New Vaqero boxes - all of mine are labeled 45COLT , mine are not the SASS version and i did buy them a good number of years ago , 

 

this is always an interesting topic and i always enjoy seeing all the differing opinions , 

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