Johnny Knight Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Got the new supplies in for a bit of reloading and was curious if folks had load data for Titegroup for 45lc? Loading a 200 grain Hi-Tek coated lead bullet. Per Hodgdon this is what they recommend: Bullet Weight200 GR. CAST LRNFP ManufacturerHodgdon PowderTitegroup Bullet Diam..452" C.O.L.1.600" Starting Loads GRS. VEL.(FT/S) PRESS. 6.5 933 9,300 CUP Maximum Loads GRS. VEL.(FT/S) PRESS. 7.7 1050 12,700 CUP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Knight Posted May 12, 2021 Author Share Posted May 12, 2021 Finishing the rest of my question, for CAS I don't see any advantage in hitting even the starting load velocity (933 fps), so I was looking to drop the velocity down. In looking online, I've seen others going down to 4 grains with good results. Any idea how the velocity drops off on this powder? I don't have a chrono, but was looking to load around 5.4 grains to get closer or under 800 fps. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Stone, SASS #53366 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 When I was using Titegroup I used 5.0 grs. for either 200 or 250 gr bullets. Marshal Stone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Titegroup gets to REALLY smoking up the .45 Colt cases with a 200 grain bullet and light loads, because it does not seal the thick-walled .45 Colt case, and it has a high content of nitroglycerin in the powder, resulting in lots of soot. Sorta like Bullseye does. I used to shoot it a lot in .45 Colt with 200 grain cast bullets. Had best accuracy and clean shooting with 5.5 grains TG. It will give you a loud muzzle report which makes you think its making higher velocities than you will measure over a chrono. Cases will be hot to touch, as the brass pickers will be glad to tell you. Both of those come from that nitroglycerin in the mix. A very good powder, but not something I stuck with long term. GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 PLUS ONE to Garrison Joe. I shot TightGroup for years before enlightenment. I did however, switch to Cowboy 45 Special cases to get a good burn with light bullets. Some soot regardless as OEM 45 Colt cases won't seal in anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Knight Posted May 12, 2021 Author Share Posted May 12, 2021 Thanks everyone for the responses, tells me the 5.4 grains should be a working load. I'll dial it in on the next couple rounds of reloading. Using it mostly because it's what I have and it's worked well for me in 45 acp and 40 S&W. Once powder becomes available again, I'm interested in trying some various combos just to see the if one works better with the lightning rifle. Any source on brass for Cowboy 45 Special by chance? Starline is showing them back ordered atm, though they only took a week to send some 45 lc brass I ordered that was also showing back ordered...... Also, I'm using the same rounds in a lightning rifle, so another reason to stick with the 45 lc brass. I'm assuming the cowboy special won't work in the lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 +1 to both Garrison Joe and Colorado Coffinmaker, for my 45 COLT* rifle loads I switched to RedDot, @ around 800 fps from 6.0 grains. For my 45 COLT* pistols I also switched to Cowboy45Special and use Clays as my powder. * Proper name of the cartridge as introduced by Colt and UMC for the US Army in their "Peacemaker" revolver in 1873. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 I used 5.4 grs of Tite-Group in .44-40 with a 200 grain bullet. I now use 3.6 grs in a 125 .38 bullet. I like Tite-Group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Jake Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 I shot a couple lbs of TiteGroup with 250 gr bullets in my rifle and 45 Schofield cases in my revolvers. It performed well, was sootier than Unique. Now I'm using Shooters World Clean Shot in both and like it. Still dirty with light loads in 45, but it cleans up easily. It doesn't bother me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 5 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said: ...it has a high content of nitroglycerin in the powder, resulting in lots of soot. Sorta like Bullseye does. ... Cases will be hot to touch, as the brass pickers will be glad to tell you. Both of those come from that nitroglycerin in the mix. Does this mean a single base powder that does not contain nitroglycerin generates less soot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Not a lot of single base pistol/shotgun powders still left. Most use some nitroglycerin content (up to 40%) to speed up the burn rates and supply more energy in a light charge. So, not using NG is not the cure-all for a clean burning powder, but it helps. Other additives apparently can compensate for some NG content, as used in some of the recent powders that are designed to have clean burns. (Powder companies don't tell the general public a lot about their chemical magic - a lot of what is known comes from MSDS sheet disclosures required by OSHA) good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 When I talked to the folks at Starline I was told on a lot of the less popular cases they have for sale they will run in batches when the order totals get high enough. This is so they do not have huge inventories in storage. kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 17 minutes ago, Kid Rich said: When I talked to the folks at Starline I was told on a lot of the less popular cases they have for sale they will run in batches when the order totals get high enough. This is so they do not have huge inventories in storage. kR Kid---Looks like that post somehow got on the wrong thread. Say Hi to Shirttail and give both of you a hug!!! EH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said: Kid---Looks like that post somehow got on the wrong thread. Say Hi to Shirttail and give both of you a hug!!! EH Not really Eyesa, I was referring to OP's third post when he asked about availability of CS brass. I'll tell SB you said HI and hugs. kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Kid Rich said: Not really Eyesa, I was referring to OP's third post when he asked about availability of CS brass. I'll tell SB you said HI and hugs. kR Sorry my brain phart, hope to see ya this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go West Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 No, the Special rounds won't work in your Lightning, most like to be loaded long. You might consider Schofield brass for your pistol loads. Shorter case is more efficient and you can use lighter bullets for pistol than the rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Knight Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 Hi Go West, thanks for the reply. I'm looking forward to putting some rounds through the lightning. When I asked in a separate post about what the lightning liked to shoot, I had another recommendation from John Boy recommending "Reloads 1.55 to 1.57 chamber better than COAL 1.60", so I loaded some up with a case length set at 1.56. I wonder how much it depends on which version of the lightning? The one I just picked up is an AWA model fwiw. Looking forward to getting familiar with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patagonia Pete Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 When I first started I loaded Titegroup in 45s ... For me ... 5gr (w/ a 200gr Bear Creek bullet) went 900fps out of my 20 inch 92 and 725fps out of my 4 3/4 inch Cattleman revolvers. People used to run from the stages holding their ears ... screaming ... "there shooting real bullets in there!!" ... (as their ear protection was useless) ... Ultimately I got down to 4.5gr and that got down to 800fps out of the 20 inch carbine (don't have data on the revolvers ... probably didn't measure them). Then ... I moved to a different powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron "Ironhead" Smith Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/cowboy-action1.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Knight Posted May 14, 2021 Author Share Posted May 14, 2021 Thanks Patagonia, I've got 500 cases in the tumbler now, I'll load up some of them with the 4.5 grain load and compare them to the 5.4 grain loads I knocked out yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Some years ago I loaded lots of 200gr .45 Colts with 5.5 gr of TG. This load was listed in both the Laser-Cast reloading manual and by Hodgdon, with velocity listed as ~743fps. The report was loud as mentioned and the recoil impulse was more noticeable than Clays for example, which I use now. Also, the screws on my pistols loosened more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 OP, I looked at 45C single-base loads, as Garrison Joe points out, there are not many powders in this group. Note that Trail Boss is a single base powder, as is the now-discontinued IMR Red. 231 244 572 IMR 4227 IMR Red IMR Target PB SR 4756 SR 7625 Trail Boss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Umm, I KNOW that Win 572 is a double base powder, with 36% nitroglycerin. https://www.handloadermagazine.com/propellant-profiles-0 Believe Win 231 is also double base. Know 244 is double base. The MSDS that includes 231 has several powders in it, many are double base. Most flattened ball powders are double base. It's modern version, Win 244 has 37% nitroglycerin. Just about guaranteed that 231/HP-38 is double base, too. https://www.handloadermagazine.com/propellant-profiles-9 PB SR 4756 SR 7625 are long out of production, so hardly worth mentioning them. No one can get a new can of any of them. I'd bet Red and Target are/were double base. But the factory info is VERY skimpy on their makeup. And they are strongly rumored to have arrived at end-of-production. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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