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Colt frame screws torque specs?


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Does any know what the torque specs are for the various screws that hold Colt single-action revolvers together?  Or where I could find them?

 

I own:  SAA, Frontier Scout, Army, Navy and Pocket Police.  The more I that I disassemble & reassemble these guns the more I wonder about tightening the various screws to the correct specifications.

 

Thanx, Dave

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There probably are torque specs somewhere, but I try to snug screws up without reefing on them and use either Loctite purple or blue to hold them in place.

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5 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

6-8 in/lbs

OLG 

Seems kinda light OLG...I torque standard rings (ie: Leupold), to 24 in/lbs.

 

Phantom

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5 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Seems kinda light OLG...I torque standard rings (ie: Leupold), to 24 in/lbs.

 

Phantom

We don't know how old those guns are.

I torque my Ruger OMV frame screws to 15 in/lbs

OLG 

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Posted (edited)

Brownell’s “Torque Specifications for Gunsmiths” Article

 

Quote

 

https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=10816

Many shooters want to be able to torque the action screws on their rifles. In this instance, we are not applying torque in order to resist shear. If you have a birch wood stock and 1 x 28 threaded guard screws, you would splinter the stock long before you have reached the “correct” preload for that fastener. While a scope mount screw with a torx head may be able to withstand the application of the maximum preload for a fastener of its size and composition, a slotted headed fastener identical in all other ways would not be able to withstand the same amount of preload since the slotted head would deform.

 

 

 

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

We don't know how old those guns are.

I torque my Ruger OMV frame screws to 15 in/lbs

OLG 

True...and I'm not an expert on torque specs when it comes to old colts...since they are pretty much display guns for me, I torque them to "Lightly Snug / Lbs".

 

:P

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Guys,

I'm not shooting Wyatt Earp's Single Action Army from the OK Corral, nor Wild Bill Hickock's Navy Colts from Deadwood.

 

For clarification, my guns are of fairly "modern" manufacture:

SAA - second generation made in the late 1950's

Frontier Scout - K series from the mid-1960's

Army, Navy & Pocket Police - second generations from the 1970's & 1980's

Another Navy - third generation from around the year 2000

 

I'm just curious why a revolver that can cost upwards of $2,000 even on the used market doesn't have published maintenance torque specifications, while a $50 scope mount does?!

 

Thanx, Dave

 

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15 minutes ago, Blu Nos Dav said:

Guys,

I'm not shooting Wyatt Earp's Single Action Army from the OK Corral, nor Wild Bill Hickock's Navy Colts from Deadwood.

 

For clarification, my guns are of fairly "modern" manufacture:

SAA - second generation made in the late 1950's

Frontier Scout - K series from the mid-1960's

Army, Navy & Pocket Police - second generations from the 1970's & 1980's

Another Navy - third generation from around the year 2000

 

I'm just curious why a revolver that can cost upwards of $2,000 even on the used market doesn't have published maintenance torque specifications, while a $50 scope mount does?!

 

Thanx, Dave

 

Do you seriously think the assemblers of these guns are sitting there using a torque wrench?  Do you think they had even such things in the 1880s?  Watch a video over on YouTube and you will see the factory assemblers using regular screwdrivers.  In 50+ years of working on these things you are the first person I have ever heard ask this question.  Even the bible of Colt Single Actions, The Kuhnhausen book, merely says to "snug" the screws.  It ain't rocket science.  You are being overly concerned over a non-issue.

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15 minutes ago, Blu Nos Dav said:

Guys,

I'm not shooting Wyatt Earp's Single Action Army from the OK Corral, nor Wild Bill Hickock's Navy Colts from Deadwood.

 

For clarification, my guns are of fairly "modern" manufacture:

SAA - second generation made in the late 1950's

Frontier Scout - K series from the mid-1960's

Army, Navy & Pocket Police - second generations from the 1970's & 1980's

Another Navy - third generation from around the year 2000

 

I'm just curious why a revolver that can cost upwards of $2,000 even on the used market doesn't have published maintenance torque specifications, while a $50 scope mount does?!

 

Thanx, Dave

 

Well because there is a significant difference between scope ring screws and Colt frame screws. Many scope manufacturers define the torque specs for their scopes...thin tubes can be a bit sensitive. Where as frame screws (using this term in a kind of generic way), would be dependent on the screw used and the material holding the female thread. 

 

Back in the day, I think they tightened them down nice and snug...would be surprised if they had a torque screwdriver (could be wrong). So now do you expect someone to go out on a limb and say what those torque specs should be? 

 

PS: Haven't seen any $50 scope have torque specs attached to them...but then again I don't deal much in $50 scopes :o

 

Phantom

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12 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Do you seriously think the assemblers of these guns are sitting there using a torque wrench?  Do you think they had even such things in the 1880s?  Watch a video over on YouTube and you will see the factory assemblers using regular screwdrivers.  In 50+ years of working on these things you are the first person I have ever heard ask this question.  Even the bible of Colt Single Actions, The Kuhnhausen book, merely says to "snug" the screws.  It ain't rocket science.  You are being overly concerned over a non-issue.

 

I don't know what type of tools Colt used back in the 1880's, but, I do know that they now use CNC machines and other very advanced equipment, so, I expect that their assembly & maintenance techniques should have improved as well.  Perhaps, you believe that they are still using water-wheels to power their machinery along the Connecticut River?

 

If I am the first person to ask this question, then I'll take that as a compliment.

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You are talking steel on steel, so snug enough so that they don't loosen when used. This isn't an engine with lots of pressure applied like head bolts, or a situation where different torques will distort the piece, like a wheel or some sort of flat piece that must remain flat. The screws just have to stay in place.  Like Larsen said, you are being overly concerned over a non-issue, IMHO. I have better things to worry about.

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13 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Well because there is a significant difference between scope ring screws and Colt frame screws. Many scope manufacturers define the torque specs for their scopes...thin tubes can be a bit sensitive. Where as frame screws (using this term in a kind of generic way), would be dependent on the screw used and the material holding the female thread. 

 

Back in the day, I think they tightened them down nice and snug...would be surprised if they had a torque screwdriver (could be wrong). So now do you expect someone to go out on a limb and say what those torque specs should be? 

 

PS: Haven't seen any $50 scope have torque specs attached to them...but then again I don't deal much in $50 scopes :o

 

Phantom

 

I wrote "$50 scope mount", of which there are many models which provide precise torque specifications for proper assembly.  It helps if you read & understand the question, before you blurt out an answer.

 

Please explain how both examples which involve holding two pieces of metal together using screws is "significantly different".

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8 minutes ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

You are talking steel on steel, so snug enough so that they don't loosen when used. This isn't an engine with lots of pressure applied like head bolts, or a situation where different torques will distort the piece, like a wheel or some sort of flat piece that must remain flat. The screws just have to stay in place.  Like Larsen said, you are being overly concerned over a non-issue, IMHO. I have better things to worry about.

 

The instantaneous G-forces that are applied to a handgun during firing are actually much higher than the forces inside an internal combustion engine while running.  Which is why gun parts "shoot loose", while car parts don't (as quickly), if the screws/bolts are properly torqued.  It's interesting, that some shooters don't expect the same level of reliability from their firearms, as most drivers expect from their vehicles.

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28 minutes ago, Blu Nos Dav said:

 

I wrote "$50 scope mount", of which there are many models which provide precise torque specifications for proper assembly.  It helps if you read & understand the question, before you blurt out an answer.

 

Please explain how both examples which involve holding two pieces of metal together using screws is "significantly different".

So...are you referring to Rings or Bases?

 

If you're referring to Rings, then there is significant differences since you are not truly holding two pieces of metal together...but you seem to be pretty schmart, so you probably already understand this. So I'll continue with the stipulation that you're schmart...so obviously these stoopid manufacturers haven't done their calculations on the clamping force needed for these frame components to be operated properly and safely. May I suggest that you do the engineering for them and let them know that you've accomplished this. Perhaps they will pay you for your efforts and even proclaim the day as "Blu Nos Dav Day" in celebration of the day that you saved their company from industry embarrassment.

 

Hope I didn't "blurt" out an answer again...

 

Phantom

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1 hour ago, Blu Nos Dav said:

 

I don't know what type of tools Colt used back in the 1880's, but, I do know that they now use CNC machines and other very advanced equipment, so, I expect that their assembly & maintenance techniques should have improved as well.  Perhaps, you believe that they are still using water-wheels to power their machinery along the Connecticut River?

 

If I am the first person to ask this question, then I'll take that as a compliment.

 

 

Just an FYI, Colt does not even make the parts anymore for the SAA.  They only finish and assemble them.

 

I am calling an official Troll alert.  This guy only wants to argue about non-sense.

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Obviously my question has gotten on some members' nerves.  I've read many threads here on the Wire that ask interesting questions.  If I can offer some helpful information - I do, and if I can't - I don't.  But, it would never occur to me to jump on my keyboard to type words to the effect of, 'I don't know the answer, but, I want to tell the OP what a dumb question he's asking!'  If you actually have more important things to worry about, why are you here typing?

 

Warden - Thank you for adding some levity, that was pretty funny!

 

Ringo - Thank you for at least answering my one of my original questions.  (sarcasm noted)

 

Phan - Not sure if Colt has learned much from anyone's suggestions over the years ..... Is this their 20th bankruptcy, or only their 19th?

 

Lars - Thanx for making an "official" proclamation. 

 

I'll look elsewhere for an answer to my question.  Dave out.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Blu Nos Dav said:

Obviously my question has gotten on some members' nerves.  I've read many threads here on the Wire that ask interesting questions.  If I can offer some helpful information - I do, and if I can't - I don't.  But, it would never occur to me to jump on my keyboard to type words to the effect of, 'I don't know the answer, but, I want to tell the OP what a dumb question he's asking!'  If you actually have more important things to worry about, why are you here typing?

 

Warden - Thank you for adding some levity, that was pretty funny!

 

Ringo - Thank you for at least answering my one of my original questions.  (sarcasm noted)

 

Phan - Not sure if Colt has learned much from anyone's suggestions over the years ..... Is this their 20th bankruptcy, or only their 19th?

 

Lars - Thanx for making an "official" proclamation. 

 

I'll look elsewhere for an answer to my question.  Dave out.

 

 

If you think that getting a response to your question of "I don't know the answer, but, I want to tell the OP what a dumb question he's asking" is an anomaly here on the Wire, you're terribly mistaken.

 

Go with 24 in/lbs.

 

Or go with 8 in/lbs.

 

On second thought...why would you trust anyone other than the mfgr. for the specs?

 

Phantom

 

PS: I've been trying to get the torque specs for my original Henry...Winchester won't stop laughing at me. But then again...they've gone belly up a few times too so...

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PLUS ONE to Pettifogger

 

PLUS ONE to Phantom

 

PLUS - DON'T FEED TROLLS

 

PLUS - Feel free to go Elsewhere 

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Blu Nos,

I don't know the specs.  But I'l just suggest this:

 

Take your torque screw driver and set it at 1#.   Then apply it to your screws on your new Colt.

When you get the audible 'click', you'll know its ATLEAST 1#.

 

Then proceed to 2# and 'click'.

Then go up to a higher 'reasonable' poundage on your torque driver.   Do this until you don't 

get a 'Click'.    That will be the torque that the factory set.

 

Testing your torque driver at 1# and 2# is a method to TEST that your torque driver is working

properly.    If it were me, I would start with 5# and then work up.

 

No thanks necessary.   My mind is always thinking about simple problems with simple answers.

 

..........Widder

 

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1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Blu Nos,

I don't know the specs.  But I'l just suggest this:

 

Take your torque screw driver and set it at 1#.   Then apply it to your screws on your new Colt.

When you get the audible 'click', you'll know its ATLEAST 1#.

 

Then proceed to 2# and 'click'.

Then go up to a higher 'reasonable' poundage on your torque driver.   Do this until you don't 

get a 'Click'.    That will be the torque that the factory set.

 

Testing your torque driver at 1# and 2# is a method to TEST that your torque driver is working

properly.    If it were me, I would start with 5# and then work up.

 

No thanks necessary.   My mind is always thinking about simple problems with simple answers.

 

..........Widder

 

Wow!!!

 

You crazy schmart!!!!!

 

:P

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13 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Wow!!!

 

You crazy schmart!!!!!

 

:P

 

Since my heart surgery, I ain't had much to do kept sit around and think..... :lol:

Plus, the new aorta valve is letting more oxygen get to my brain..... or so the Doc sez.

 

Hope you are doing well, Phantomborg.

Won't be long before I can start practicing with the 97 again.   Watch out!

 

..........Widder

 

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10 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Since my heart surgery, I ain't had much to do kept sit around and think..... :lol:

Plus, the new aorta valve is letting more oxygen get to my brain..... or so the Doc sez.

 

Hope you are doing well, Phantomborg.

Won't be long before I can start practicing with the 97 again.   Watch out!

 

..........Widder

 

I'm vertical and breathing...so all is good!

 

Stop by CO sometime!

 

Phantom

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1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Blu Nos,

I don't know the specs.  But I'l just suggest this:

 

Take your torque screw driver and set it at 1#.   Then apply it to your screws on your new Colt.

When you get the audible 'click', you'll know its ATLEAST 1#.

 

Then proceed to 2# and 'click'.

Then go up to a higher 'reasonable' poundage on your torque driver.   Do this until you don't 

get a 'Click'.    That will be the torque that the factory set.

 

Testing your torque driver at 1# and 2# is a method to TEST that your torque driver is working

properly.    If it were me, I would start with 5# and then work up.

 

No thanks necessary.   My mind is always thinking about simple problems with simple answers.

 

..........Widder

 

FYI, there's an initial spike in torque to overcome friction when loosening a fastener. 

 

Just sayin....

 

:ph34r:

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