El CupAJoe Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Hey all, I'm getting a primer maker from 22lr reloader and it got me thinking about volcanic repeaters. If a person were to recreate some rocket ball ammo and show up with a repro or original volcanic repeater, other than potentially not being able to make power factor, is there any specific prohibition for this kind of ammo, or is it only Cap and Ball, Centerfire and Rimfire permitted? El CupAJoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 The Volcanic handgun isn't a revolver, so it wouldn't be allowed. The carbine is so rare, I've never seen one outside of the Cody museum - you actually have one? Without getting into the safety aspects, since the Rocket Ball ammo doesn't appear to have ever been chambered in a revolver, I'd say the carbine would also be disallowed. Not to mention, it's probably a $40,000+ gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El CupAJoe Posted May 4, 2021 Author Share Posted May 4, 2021 19 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said: The Volcanic handgun isn't a revolver, so it wouldn't be allowed. The carbine is so rare, I've never seen one outside of the Cody museum - you actually have one? Without getting into the safety aspects, since the Rocket Ball ammo doesn't appear to have ever been chambered in a revolver, I'd say the carbine would also be disallowed. Not to mention, it's probably a $40,000+ gun. thinking about making a repro mostly. If I ever end up with a Bridgeport and too much time on my hands, a volcanic might be high up on my list of things to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 A few years back a guy made a Volcanic from scratch, but he made it to fire brass cased ammo, and modified 40S&W brass for it, I think. Description and lots of pics of the project are somewhere on the web. I've found it a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 I always thought good calibers for a reproduction Volcanic would be .32 or .38 S+W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 A repro in .32 or .38 would be a LOT of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 IIRC Lead Dispenser had/has a Volcanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 I also think that a reproduction Volcanic would sell. I mean, if enough people buy Mare's Legs to justify their creation, I think a Volcanic would sell just a well to the same buyers. Now if we could just get SASS to legalize 'em. They'd prolly sell even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordyce Beals Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 All center-fire or rim-fire ammunition must be designed to package the bullet, gunpowder, and primer into a single metallic case precisely made to fit the firing chamber of the firearm. The primer must be of the type that uses only a small charge of impact sensitive chemical that may be located at the center of the case head or at its rim. Copyright© Single Action Shooting Society, Inc. 2021 Version Page 26 This is the closest I could find in the Shooters Handbook to rocket ball prohibition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Sombra Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 18 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: A few years back a guy made a Volcanic from scratch, but he made it to fire brass cased ammo, and modified 40S&W brass for it, I think. Description and lots of pics of the project are somewhere on the web. I've found it a few times. I think this is link Abilene was talking about http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=3ea2180a9524d28b528f313df0c0b662;act=ST;f=3;t=22531;st=0 28 pages of info and compliments. La Sombra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 22 minutes ago, La Sombra said: I think this is link Abilene was talking about http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=3ea2180a9524d28b528f313df0c0b662;act=ST;f=3;t=22531;st=0 28 pages of info and compliments. La Sombra Well, that was cool, but the one I was remembering was a rifle, not a pistol! I think the guy's name was Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Sombra Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: Well, that was cool, but the one I was remembering was a rifle, not a pistol! I think the guy's name was Mike. Same guy different board with a rifle. http://levergunscommunity.org/viewtopic.php?t=22477 La Sombra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 That's the one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Just for the sake of being me, I'll go on record and say that if someone showed up with a vintage Volcanic and figured out a way to make workable ammo for it, I'd not object to its use. But I am weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamus McGillicuddy Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 20 hours ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said: IIRC Lead Dispenser had/has a Volcanic. I recall seeing a video of him or another SASS shooter firing one with original type ammo some years back. They were speculating that it might have been the first time one as fired like that in decades. Seamus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted May 6, 2021 Share Posted May 6, 2021 http://library.centerofthewest.org/digital/collection/p17097coll30/id/2706/rec/4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 Don Barker.from Cody, Wy was building Volcanic pistols in 22lr. He built about 40 total. Dustin Linebaugh was fitting all the parts and he may still have one or two of the completed guns. This was back in 2000. After 9/11 people lost interest in the Volcanics. I carried one around to gun shows along with literature when I was selling Laser Cast bullets. From my understanding the propellant in the originals was slow burning and inconsistent. There was no case, the powder was in the hollowed out bullet. Therefore no ejector was necessary. When fired originals made more of a hissing sound and not a loud boom like a black powder round. Don had to design the 22lr model to extract the empty cases. There was a carbine kit available for the pistols, I recall seeing one at a Winchester collector show and it was complete with case, I believe they were asking $80k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 Taking a break from audit schedules, and I am afraid I will upset some people, but here goes! I was thinking of trying to get a Henry receiver from Henry Rifle, and then counting down a rifle barrel, or paying them to do it it to a 12" length for the pistol version. Fantasy, not all the ideas worked out yet, but that was my dreamin'. I figured I could go to someone to heat up the lever to match a grip that I would have to play with say an Army or Navy style C&B grip, not sure of the size. Still in the pie in the sky stage, but food for thought and discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 43 minutes ago, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said: Taking a break from audit schedules, and I am afraid I will upset some people, but here goes! I was thinking of trying to get a Henry receiver from Henry Rifle, and then counting down a rifle barrel, or paying them to do it it to a 12" length for the pistol version. Fantasy, not all the ideas worked out yet, but that was my dreamin'. I figured I could go to someone to heat up the lever to match a grip that I would have to play with say an Army or Navy style C&B grip, not sure of the size. Still in the pie in the sky stage, but food for thought and discussion. Would you call a Mare's Leg based on the Henry a Volcanic? Or if you wanted to would you need to do some major mods to the grip and lever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said: Taking a break from audit schedules, and I am afraid I will upset some people, but here goes! I was thinking of trying to get a Henry receiver from Henry Rifle, and then counting down a rifle barrel, or paying them to do it it to a 12" length for the pistol version. Fantasy, not all the ideas worked out yet, but that was my dreamin'. I figured I could go to someone to heat up the lever to match a grip that I would have to play with say an Army or Navy style C&B grip, not sure of the size. Still in the pie in the sky stage, but food for thought and discussion. As it began life registered as a rifle you would have to obtain a permit for a Short Barreled Rifle. The magazine opening would be problematic. Of course you could start with a 66 action and have a loading gate. I think I would get one of the carriers for shorter rounds and when they cut the barrel cut from the chamber end and re-chamber to 44 Russian. This would give you the most rounds. Or 45 Cowboy if you started with a 45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 On 5/5/2021 at 12:00 PM, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: Well, that was cool, but the one I was remembering was a rifle, not a pistol! I think the guy's name was Mike. Maybe Charlie? This be the one you're thinkin' of: Charlie's .40 cal Volcanic Oh, I see I was beat out on the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El CupAJoe Posted May 11, 2021 Author Share Posted May 11, 2021 On 5/4/2021 at 3:12 PM, El CupAJoe said: other than potentially not being able to make power factor I'd like to go on record as having re-read the rulebook, apparently as far as I can tell, there is no PF requirement for black powder cartridges or cap and ball as long as you aren't shooting black powder centerfire cartridges in a "Smokeless Category" there are only minimum caliber and smoke and maximum velocity requirements. If I'm reading that wrong please advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Yes, I would be looking to make the grip adjustments to look like the Volcanic pistol. And if I am buying a frame and having a 9-12 inch barrel/magazine put on it, why would it be considered a short barrel rifle? Nothing different than short 92 "pistols" out now, right? The frame is like an AR15 without a barrel, I can buy a frame put it together with a .300 blackout pistol upper and it is a pistol, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 To do what you describe, you must be able to prove that the frame was never a rifle. That it was made as a pistol frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 A frame/receiver is just a frame/receiver, it is neither a long gun nor handgun, and is transferred on a 4473 as "other". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El CupAJoe Posted May 14, 2021 Author Share Posted May 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said: Yes, I would be looking to make the grip adjustments to look like the Volcanic pistol. And if I am buying a frame and having a 9-12 inch barrel/magazine put on it, why would it be considered a short barrel rifle? Nothing different than short 92 "pistols" out now, right? The frame is like an AR15 without a barrel, I can buy a frame put it together with a .300 blackout pistol upper and it is a pistol, right? A virgin frame can be either, a pistol frame can be made into a rifle, and maybe converted back. A rifle frame that is made into a pistol configuration requires a SBR tax stamp. if you can get a virgin frame from Henry, it would require no tax stamp, if you get a frame from a donor rifle, you'll have to pay the tax stamp and notify BATF if you travel out of state with it etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 On 5/14/2021 at 2:18 PM, El CupAJoe said: A virgin frame can be either, a pistol frame can be made into a rifle, and maybe converted back. A rifle frame that is made into a pistol configuration requires a SBR tax stamp. if you can get a virgin frame from Henry, it would require no tax stamp, if you get a frame from a donor rifle, you'll have to pay the tax stamp and notify BATF if you travel out of state with it etc. Yes that is how I saw it, I would get a frame from Henry, and then see if they could cut one of their barrels down to 12". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.