AWA lightning questions from a new member

[Johnny Knight]

Still sorting out the forum process as a new member (SASS 111174, Johnny Knight).  I just picked up an AWA lightning (20" round barrel, 45LC) on it's way to me after ignoring all the good advice to go out to a few matches and shoot a few guns first.  I've shot off and on for years with Ruger Bisleys (45LC) and a Marlin 94 in 30-30, but the Lightning rifle looked intriguing, so I went ahead and pulled the trigger on it (or will soon enough....).  If someone would be kind enough to share the manual, it would be greatly appreciated.  I look forward to meeting folks over the next few months.  Planning on hauling a pony out to a CMSA mounted shooting event this upcoming Saturday and hopefully a regular SASS monthly match the following Sunday with the Texas Historical Shootist Society chapter in Columbus, TX.  Any other input on the gun would be appreciated.  My understanding from looking through this forum is clean early, clean often to keep it happy.  Also, any recommendation on load data on the preferred round?  I was planning on a Hi- Tek poly coated 200 gn RNFP for bullet choice, since that is what I normally shoot in the Ruger.  Thanks in advance.

Dave

aka Johnny Knight

[John Boy]

*. Reloads 1.55 to1.57 chamber better than COAL 1.60

*  Don’t baby racking the rifle, full cycles and with strong movements

[Johnny Knight]

Thanks for the suggestions.  Any powders preferred or to be avoided?  Not that there is much of a selection atm....

Regards

Johnny

[Yul Lose]

Roger Rapid will send you the Lightning manual for free, just PM him. He’d rather deal directly with you to keep it updated. 

[Sedalia Dave]

@Roger Rapid 's booklet is definitely a must have.

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

Welcome, now go get yourself a good hat.

 

Imis

[doc roy l. pain]

3 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

@Roger Rapid 's booklet is definitely a must have.

+1. Also he will put you on his mailing list and keep you updated on all his manuals. He’s a tremendous wealth of knowledge. 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Welcome to the Lightning Club.   An addictive and enjoyable place to be.   My first Lightning was an AWA in .45 Colt.   Some will tell you that the AWA is hit or miss quality wise, but my experience with them has been a couple of solid hits.  The only thing I'll say is keep it clean.  Gunk can accumulate in the firing pin channel causing it to not go bang if you let it build up too much.

For ammo, I run a 200 grain RNFP lead bullet over a charge of 5.5 grains of Trailboss.   I use this in all my .45's

Beware...   It starts with one Lightning made by AWA in .45 Colt, and quickly progresses to this...

 

...with one more on the way.

[Johnny Knight]

I pm'd Roger and he replied almost immediately with a copy of his manual.  A big thanks for his generosity.  The gun is supposed to arrive tomorrow at my local ffl, looking forward to picking it up. 

To Imis, I've had my Stetson for 20+ years, I wear it when I go trail riding, so covered on that one, or at least until I need to add another one....

To H.K., I'd love to load with trailboss if I can track down a can.  Our local suppliers have been out and I haven't seen it in stock online at the usual places like Midsouth or Midway.  Checking the local Basspro, they've been random on what they get in  Last week I missed by about 10 minutes getting a hold of a brick of large pistol primers, the gentleman ahead of me at the register grabbed the one brick that came in.  So I figure it will be luck of the draw as to which powders come available.

On another note, popped a few balloons from horseback this morning.  After a week of getting her used to it, my main horse has resigned herself to putting up with my shenanigans.  The plan is to haul her out for a CMSA next weekend in Texas.  Should be entertaining!

Johnny

 

[Johnny Knight]

One other question occurred to me, given the reputation of the gun to need to stay clean.  Is there a recommended lube that won't build up and trap gunk around the firing pin?  For most things I just use regular Remington gun oil, but with all the other drier lubes out there, I didn't know if a particular lube might be a better choice?  Thanks in advance for any recommendations.

Regards,

Johnny

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Knight said:

One other question occurred to me, given the reputation of the gun to need to stay clean.  Is there a recommended lube that won't build up and trap gunk around the firing pin?  For most things I just use regular Remington gun oil, but with all the other drier lubes out there, I didn't know if a particular lube might be a better choice?  Thanks in advance for any recommendations.

Regards,

Johnny

 

To me, the best way to deal with the gunk is a couple of squirts of Gunscrubber after the match.   That'll flush it out real good.  After cleaning the whole gun, I just oil the places that need to be oiled.  That keeps it working.

If you want to prevent gunk, switch to .44-40.   Gunk is more or less a given with the .45, but it is not debilitating as long as you keep it clean.

And that's all I can say about that.

[John Boy]

Quote

One other question occurred to me, given the reputation of the gun to need to stay clean. 

... and using oils collects dirt and foul.  Eezox doesn't, my choice to lube and clean smokeless round firearms.

OK, re: keeping a Lightning clean:

* When my re-engineered Taurus came back, off to the range with it and 50 rounds, Ideal 454190, 255gr bullets charged with ETR7 smokeless.  Shot the 50 rounds with no cleaning, canted sideways, 90 degrees sideways & normally .... consecutively with no cleaning as fast as I could work the slide- FAST.  Had only 3 rounds that stove piped

 

[Johnny Knight]

Thanks John Boy for the recommendation.  I've used a multitude of different lubricants/cleaners over the years between automotive, guns and armor work, but hadn't run across the Eezox yet.  It looks like it has a solid reputation from what I've gathered.  A number of places were showing out of stock, but I tracked some down and it is now on its way along with a few needle oiler bottles.  Looking forward to the lightning arriving (1 day late so far...), so that I can give it a good once over.

Regards,

Johnny

[Griff]

On 5/4/2021 at 5:50 AM, Sedalia Dave said:

@Roger Rapid 's booklet is definitely a must have.

This ↑ ↑ ↑ . But I seen you've already handled that.

On 5/4/2021 at 6:26 AM, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said:

Welcome, now go get yourself a good hat.

But not this ↑ ↑ ↑. Not a requirement except in the two costume categories.  

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

7 hours ago, Griff said:

This ↑ ↑ ↑ . But I seen you've already handled that.

But not this ↑ ↑ ↑. Not a requirement except in the two costume categories.  

Very true.   BUT, a hat is something that I will recommend for several reasons.  One, it helps prevent hot brass from going down the back of your neck and into your shirt.   Two, it prevents a sunburn on the top of the head.  Three, it helps shade your eyes, making shooting more comfortable.  Four, it looks cool.

Good luck.

[Griff]

3 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Very true.   BUT, a hat is something that I will recommend for several reasons.  One, it helps prevent hot brass from going down the back of your neck and into your shirt.   Two, it prevents a sunburn on the top of the head.  Three, it helps shade your eyes, making shooting more comfortable.  Four, it looks cool.

Good luck.

Aye, highly recommended, shows uncommon good sense, but shouldn't be told "get a hat".

[Johnny Knight]

Well, the lighting arrived today.  I can better appreciate John Boy's advice on not babying the gun when racking it, as it seems to work better when you cycle the action with a bit of conviction.  I'll wait until the Eezox arrives before giving it a good once over, though it is clean now, it looks as though it hasn't had enough rounds through it to loosen things up.  Might put a few rounds through it tomorrow just to see how she shoots.  Also, got my welcome to SASS kit it, so guess that means I'm official now!  I have to say I've been impressed with how helpful everyone has been on the forum, now looking forward to meeting folks in person.  That should be on the 16th when I'm planning on catching a monthly shoot out in Gunsmoke TX.

Regards,

Johnny

[DeaconKC]

Welcome to your officialness! And congrats on a beautiful rifle!

[Johnny Knight]

Thanks, I just had a friend of mine ( a local police officer) offer me the use of his coach gun until I track one down.  So, between his generous offer, this rifle and a pair of Ruger Blackhawks (45 lc, 44 mag), I should be good to go to get started if I understand correctly.  I'll need a second holster, but I already have a drop down rig, so that should work for now.  I'm on the lookout for a cross draw type setup since I'll be using if for mounted shooting as well.

Regards,

Johnny

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

14 minutes ago, Johnny Knight said:

 a pair of Ruger Blackhawks (45 lc, 44 mag),

 

I have used different calibers in my guns at a match.  Sometime 3 different calibers.   In other words, there's nothing wrong with doing so.

However, those two calibers are very similar looking at a quick glance.  You DON'T want to get them in the wrong guns, so be sure to double check the headstamps.   Personal suggestion; make sure you are only carrying the proper number of loads in each caliber to the loading table, and load the .44 first.

[Johnny Knight]

Thanks for the suggestion.  I'm planning on taking plenty of time getting up to speed on range customs before worrying about setting any fast time records.  Might even throw a dot of color on the .44 rounds just to make it even more obvious.

Johnny

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

14 hours ago, Johnny Knight said:

  Might even throw a dot of color on the .44 rounds just to make it even more obvious.

Johnny

That is an excellent idea.    A quick visual cue can be very helpful.    Sharpies will mark brass.   That's how I tell my smokeless from my black powder loads; i put a black X on the head of the cartridge.

[Sedalia Dave]

I use different colors of coated bullets to visually ID rounds. 

[DeaconKC]

Get some ziploc bags and put your ammo for one caliber in one marked bag and the other in another marked bag. Just set up the night before for however many stages you have.

[Cat Brules]

To state the obvious:

        Bring extra ammo for every caliber you’ll be shooting.

              (Of course, you decide how much.)
 

CB

[Johnny Knight]

So, first rounds through the lightning, had some rather distinctive blowback on the cases, but otherwise shot fine.  Only had a few rounds to put through, but looking forward to working with it some more.

Johnny

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Yep, that looks pretty normal with the .45 in a rifle.  If anything, they are bit dirtier than mine usually are.   You may be able to experiment with different powders, crimps, bullets and so forth to reduce it some.  At least that's what people here on the Wire have said.

What this DOES show is why you need to clean the gun after every match.   All that soot on the case is also getting into the rifles action.

[Johnny Knight]

Thanks for confirming that this was typical for the gun, H.K.

I don't recall what powder was loaded in those rounds, so I'll keep track of the next set I load up to see if some shoot noticeably cleaner than others.  Of course,  until powder supplies come back on line, it will be determined by what I have to load with.  I'm planning on bringing it out this weekend to a local club monthly practice, so I should be able to get some more rounds through it.

Regards,

Johnny

[Major General Shagnasty]

Hi Johnny, welcome and good luck with the AWA, I and still fighting with mine and have yet to shoot a full stage with it. I have been to 3 matches with it and I get a lot of interest in it, but have not finished a stage with it. I am using 4.8 gr. of Tite Group and 225 gr. bullet set to 1.55. I have had a few stove pipes, but the bad thing is it won't go bang after the 2 or 3rd shot. Good luck with it!! 

[Tequila Shooter]

Johnny, if that’s what your cases look like with smokeless I’d hate to see what BP would do to them    Seriously, if you’re planning on using .45C you might want to look into annealing the cases.  Helps a lot with blowback and split cases, started doing it with my .45’s and since then not one split case.  Hope to posse up with you somewhere down the trail. 

[Johnny Knight]

Tequila, I don't know if I should thank you, or curse you, for sending my down a youtube rabbit hole on annealing cases   Now I'm looking at both the induction method and the salt bath method.  Out of curiosity, which method are you using?

[Roger Rapid]

Johnny Knight...

Your blackened cases are indicative of low-powder loads - especially with TrailBoss - and does speak to the frequent cleaning U.K. Uriah alluded to. It could also be indicative of a slightly oversized chamber. (I'm not suggesting changing your load - the 5.0g-5.5g of TB is a good load behind a .180-200g RNFP bullet for CAS and your cases should clean up fine.)

 

The blow-back is common on all Lightnings because of straight-sided design of the bolt does allow some blow-back (unlike the '73 with only a firing pin coming back to the hammer, or a '92/'94 where the passage way around the bolt is blocked by the locking levers). I had to find larger aviator-type glasses - where the bottom of the rim almost touches my cheeks - to get to a point where the blow-back didn't bother me. Because of the necked cases of the .44-40 and .38-40 versions, they are less prone to blow-back than the straight-sided .45LC case. You'll probably notice is you lube your Lightning  before a match that you collect a lot of oil splashes on your glasses.

 

Regardless of all the intricacies and anomalies of the Lightning, they are totally super fun to shoot.

 

RR

[Tequila Shooter]

2 hours ago, Johnny Knight said:

Tequila, I don't know if I should thank you, or curse you, for sending my down a youtube rabbit hole on annealing cases   Now I'm looking at both the induction method and the salt bath method.  Out of curiosity, which method are you using?

 

Neither I bought one of these after going through a bunch of homemade ones, I’ve never regretted the purchase. Annealeez

[Johnny Knight]

Well, had my first chance to shoot the lightning in a match yesterday out with the group at THSS in Gunsmoke, Texas.  Just want to say thanks again to the great group out there that put up with a new guy sorting out the ropes.  Had a blast with the lightning, though I can't say the gun and I are on the same page yet.  Due in part to a bit of over enthusiasm on my part, I ended up cycling a live round or two out, and had one stove pipe.  Like most things, I'm sure this was operator error as I figure out the tempo on the gun.  Looking forward to getting more rounds through it to settle in the racking of the pump. 

I know there was some blowback, since I could see it on some video a friend shot.  Guessing that was a bit too much oil in the gun.  I didn't notice it while shooting, but again that was most likely due to the aforementioned enthusiasm.  The 5.4 grains of Titegroup loaded in the 200 grain 45 Colt shot nicely, with a solid report on each round.  So, given the gun's reputation for wanting to stay clean, any suggestions on how much breakdown on the gun is recommended after a match?  I've already hit the breach area with spray gunscrubber until it looked clean, but curious as to the areas I need to focus on when cleaning the weapon and anything specific to this gun.  Any input would be appreciated on a good routine to get into, or any particular areas to look out for.  Thanks in advance.

[Roger Rapid]

Johnny Knight...

Super that you got a chance to shoot your Lightning yesterday. The trick to having a Lightning rifle cycle well comes in a very positive FULLY OPEN and FULLY CLOSED motion. You shouldn't have to cycle it "hard" - just be proactively positive. And with time you'll be able to do that quickly. (Fully cycling the slide forward ensures that the cartridge stop lever (rocker arm) goes fully down and releases the next cartridge. Fully cycling the slide back ensures that your round will come up on the lifter and get temporarily locked between the lifter the the two cartridge guides/ejection plates. If you move the slide only part of the way in either direction, the rifle - and you - will fail.) Practice makes perfect!

 

As to cleaning, your AWA is a bit less intricate on the inside than a Pedersoli or Uberti Lightning, so you could probably go four or five matches before a complete tear down. But the blow-back tells the story; powder residue and a little lead particulate is making its way back to the action. Of particular importance is the firing pin and ensuring that it can move freely. Just squirting a cleaning solvent into the action doesn't do the job, and it actually makes matters worse. And spraying in any of the gun oils will just cause things to gunk up. You have to "clean" the gun and remove residue. Look at cleaning your Lightning as your friend - and make it part of your diet.

 

Enjoy...

RR