Blu Nos Dav Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that historically, rifle manufacturers like Winchester & Marlin did not chamber their rifles in .45 Colt due to insufficient rim dimensions as compared to .44-40, etc. Which then led Colt to start making their SAA in .44-40, etc in the late 1870’s. But, when I look at the various cartridge specifications, the .45 Colt’s rim seems as proportional as the others. So, what changed? Because, nowadays, everyone chambers rifles in .45 Colt. Curious, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex M Rugers #6621 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 The early .45 Colt cartridges had a very small rim. I have no idea when they changed to the modern size , one of our more knowledgeable historians may chime in with some answers. Rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 For one thing, the original .45 Colt's cartridge was produced by the Army arsenal. It was an inside-primed, copper-cased cartridge, like the central fire .50-70 and .45-70 rifle cartridge. The only requirement for a rim was to keep the cartridge from sliding forward in the Single Action Army revolver, since extraction was by means of the revolver's rod ejector from the front. While I am sure Winchester would have loved to produce rifles in .45 Colt, I would bet (although I can't find documentation of the fact) that they would not have wanted reports from Army officers about extraction failures with the new M1873 repeaters in the field. Even when the commercial ammo manufacturers started producing brass-cased ammo for the .45 Colt's, there was no need for a larger rim. But when later guns with swing-out cylinders and star extractors came out, it was necessary to increase the rim diameter to prevent the extractor from slipping past the rims. Also, with solid head cases, an extractor cut could be turned just ahead of the rim, enabling rifle extractors to more reliably grasp the fired case. Stay well and safe, Pards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Early Benet primed .45 Colt - nothing for an extractor to grab on to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Three Foot Johnson said: Early Benet primed .45 Colt - nothing for an extractor to grab on to. Also no extractor groove, compare to modern 45 Colt cartridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blu Nos Dav Posted April 30, 2021 Author Share Posted April 30, 2021 Thanx, Guys! So, except for historical accuracy, having a Winchester 1873, 1892 & clones or a Marlin 1894 chambered in .45 Colt, it would function just as well with modern ammunition as the same gun in .44-40, Right? Follow-up questions: Is/are there distinct advantage(s) of using specific caliber(s) when shooting cartridges in rifles loaded with black powder? If yes, are there reasonable work-around solutions for non-historically BP rifle calibers, such as .38 Special and/or .45 Colt? Thanx again, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Function and feed the same. If you plan to shoot BP the 44-40 will stay way cleaner. The brass is thinner and swells out better to seal the chamber area to prevent BP fouling from blowing back into the action. For the 45 Colt I have read you can anneal the brass to make the necks expand easier, use a heavier bullet and more crimp. IMHO there is no better cartridge for shooting BP than the 38-40 and 44-40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 PLUS ONE to Goody you betcha. Modern manufacture 45 Colt brass WILL NOT expand to seal the chamber. There WILL BE Blow-By. In many cases, sufficient Blow-By to foul the chamber and or the Carrier Block enough to jam the rifle. Heavier loads "may" mitigate the Blow-By but Annealing the case to bullet depth will ELIMINATE it. If you must shoot BP in a 45 Rifle, Annealing is SKULL NUMBING BORING but worth the effort. Second solution, without annealing, is to start with 44-40 cases (Starline preferred), carefully run thru your 45 Colt dies, loaded with 45 bullets and fire formed. They seal up just fine. Depends how much work you want to put into the .45. "THE" cartridges for BP are 38-40 and/or 44-40. The dash caliber cases run very clean indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Nelson #11784 Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 On 5/1/2021 at 6:05 AM, Blu Nos Dav said: Thanx, Guys! So, except for historical accuracy, having a Winchester 1873, 1892 & clones or a Marlin 1894 chambered in .45 Colt, it would function just as well with modern ammunition as the same gun in .44-40, Right? Follow-up questions: Is/are there distinct advantage(s) of using specific caliber(s) when shooting cartridges in rifles loaded with black powder? If yes, are there reasonable work-around solutions for non-historically BP rifle calibers, such as .38 Special and/or .45 Colt? Thanx again, Dave To address the second part of your question.... No..there are no overly significant advantages in using the original calibres rather than, say, 38 Special with BP loads. (As already explained, 45 Colt can be irritating) A little more attention to cleaning required perhaps for the 38 rifles........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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