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If you had to choose when army chose m17


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If you had to chose between the glock 19X, the sig 320(m17) , or the Beretta m9a3 which one do you think is better?  

 

I favor the sig m17 but am intrigued by the other two. 

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Never handled a Sig - of the other two I'd choose the Glock every day.  I appreciate that the Glock has the same trigger pull every shot.

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I remain a fan of the Beretta. I always had confidence in the platform to work and do its job if I did mine. So much so my retirement gift to myself was an M9. I consistently qualified Expert on the combat pistol course with the M9. I like the feel of the thinner grip of the M9A3, but I'm used to the chunkier grip of the  M9.

 

I have no problem with the Sig, other than it doesn't feel as comfortable in my hand, but that is purely a subjective thing. I have yet to find a factory striker fire that feels as good as a hammer fire in single action mode, and will not be surprised if the number of negligent discharges increases over time if tracked.

Edited by DocWard
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For a sidearm,  the Glock 19 or 19X.

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Of the three you asked about, the SIG. I just don't like the feel of the glock, and though I've handled the Baretta quite well, I think I'd rather the Sig. 

Since you DIDN'T ask, in 9mm I prefer a Hi Power, and overall favorite, a 1911. Honorable Mention, Star Firestar. 

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2 hours ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

my choice would be the M-60 or the  M249 SAW

 

The best defense being a strong offense? The M-60 is long gone, replaced by the M-240

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Our force did a selection process and while other brands mentioned were initially favoured, once the users got on to the Glocks, trying them all, the Glock became the favoured. Glock 17 for uniformed and the 19 for plainclothes.

 

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In an attempt to stay on the original question.....

Better is a difficult thing to determine. There are a number of criteria factored into the choice of a weapon for the military. They include budgeting, parts availability, manufacturer’s reliaboility and past record, training, employment doctrine, etc etc etc.

If I was sitting on the procurement throne of the Army and faced with the three choices I would have to balance all factors and decide which was best for our purposes.

My decision would most probably be the Glock. Not because I favor it personally. That has nothing to do with it. I’m a SIG. fancier. Based on track record, reliability and suitability for the personnel and mission I would go with the rugged, simple to operate and sufficiently accurate for combat purposes, Glock

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I owned a Glock 19X (gave it to my son-in-law as a gift) and I have a Glock 45 (9mm) which is pretty much the 19X except it’s black. 
I would choose the Glock over the other two and over a 1911 for reliability and consistency. 
 

I did a little test years ago with my Colt 1991A1 (1911) and my Glock 34. I fired both without cleaning and just minor lubrication every 100 rounds to see how long each could go without cleaning. I had decided when each failed I would field strip it then brush the slide and frame with a military cleaning brush, lube it and keep firing. 

 

The 1911 stovepiped at 260 rounds. I cleared it, fired and it stovepiped again. Field stripped it, brushed it out, oiled, reassembled and it went just over 40 rounds and started jamming again. Total = just over 300 rounds. I think it was 304 or 305 rounds total. 

The Glock 34 went to 960 rounds. I gave it the same treatment and it fired another 110 rounds before it wouldn’t fire without malfunction. Total = 1070 rounds. 
 

Both guns were factory stock. Nothing fancy except the 1991A1 had a set of Pachmayr grips installed. 
 

Now before you lose your mind trying to verbally kick me in the shins, know this. I love the 1911. I carried one on duty in the Navy and shot many competitions with them, but until I did my test I saw the Glock as just another wonder nine with lots of fans. After that test I learned to trust and respect Glocks. 
 

I live my Smith & Wesson and Ruger revolvers too, but if I had to pick a gun to defend myself or my home it’s Glock, hands down. 
 

Flame away, but you’ll be wasting your time. 
 

 

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6 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I owned a Glock 19X (gave it to my son-in-law as a gift) and I have a Glock 45 (9mm) which is pretty much the 19X except it’s black. 
I would choose the Glock over the other two and over a 1911 for reliability and consistency. 
 

I did a little test years ago with my Colt 1991A1 (1911) and my Glock 34. I fired both without cleaning and just minor lubrication every 100 rounds to see how long each could go without cleaning. I had decided when each failed I would field strip it then brush the slide and frame with a military cleaning brush, lube it and keep firing. 

 

The 1911 stovepiped at 260 rounds. I cleared it, fired and it stovepiped again. Field stripped it, brushed it out, oiled, reassembled and it went just over 40 rounds and started jamming again. Total = just over 300 rounds. I think it was 304 or 305 rounds total. 

The Glock 34 went to 960 rounds. I gave it the same treatment and it fired another 110 rounds before it wouldn’t fire without malfunction. Total = 1070 rounds. 
 

Both guns were factory stock. Nothing fancy except the 1991A1 had a set of Pachmayr grips installed. 
 

Now before you lose your mind trying to verbally kick me in the shins, know this. I love the 1911. I carried one on duty in the Navy and shot many competitions with them, but until I did my test I saw the Glock as just another wonder nine with lots of fans. After that test I learned to trust and respect Glocks. 
 

I live my Smith & Wesson and Ruger revolvers too, but if I had to pick a gun to defend myself or my home it’s Glock, hands down. 
 

Flame away, but you’ll be wasting your time. 
 

 

I carried Glocks on duty for about 15 years. They are rugged and reliable. My department put the Glock 17 through some serious torture tests before adopting it. That said, I never warmed to the Glock. It is esthetically rather abhorrent to my delicate artistic sensibilities and I do not now own one. But it is a good dang handgun.

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I have limited experience with the Glock and Beretta.  And some experience with the Walther PPQ.

But I have some reasonable experience with the P320, in both 9mm and 357 SIG caliber.

 

I would choose the SIG.   I did choose the SIG.   I carry the SIG.

 

..........Widder

 

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4 minutes ago, Joke 'um said:

Stick with the M-9.  Save money.  Pistols mean about zip point squat in military use.

I think that the glock is about the worst ergonomically of any handgun I've ever shot for me personally, but if I was the army procurement person I would be primarily concerned about frequency of nd's, maintenance and weight.  I'd issue a revolver if it was the best at keeping people out of med center and armorers unoccupied. If your tank is no longer the cosy warm comfortable home that you want it to be, hopefully you have dismounts working alongside you that can cover your highly trained butt as you run like the dickens back to the depot to collect a more suitable instrument for offending the opposition. Cost of procurement and cost of maintenance reasonably low expectancy for it to cause issues in the field.  That's what I am choosing. Or whatever congress approves... that works too I guess, just make sure we have A-10's and b2's and carriers and food etc.

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As Joke ‘um stated, the pistol is not really a major concern for the military. Other than special operations troops, the need for a pistol for conventional units is negligible. Always has been really.

It’s mostly a point of conversation for us gun fanciers. Artillery and mines will probably continue to be the biggest casualty makers on the battlefield long into the future.

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Actually   @Trigger Mike

I recommend that you try and rent those guns or at the very least put your hands on each of them. As a few Pards have said here and in other threads, Glocks definitely do not fit everyone. I like the way mine feel because of the size of the grip. I have big hands. But, I really dislike the Glock 19s that have finger grooves. They are awkward for me. The G19 has a shorter grip. 
 

Regardless of what people like, we are all individuals and have individual likes and dislikes. 
 

Example: If I went by what others really liked in the past in regards to 9mm handguns I would own a Browning Hi-Power and a CZ-75. Both are great pistols with a lot of history and lots of people really like them. I like them just fine when I handle them, but after I rented them a couple of times I found I truly disliked the way they felt when firing. The CZ’s controls were out of reach of the fingers on my right hand. I had to shift the gun to release the slide. The Browning but the heck out of the web of my hand and just felt awkward to fire. 
 

Try and rent or borrow an example of each of those guns and try them out. 

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3 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Actually   @Trigger Mike

I recommend that you try and rent those guns or at the very least put your hands on each of them. As a few Pards have said here and in other threads, Glocks definitely do not fit everyone. I like the way mine feel because of the size of the grip. I have big hands. But, I really dislike the Glock 19s that have finger grooves. They are awkward for me. The G19 has a shorter grip. 
 

Regardless of what people like, we are all individuals and have individual likes and dislikes. 
 

Example: If I went by what others really liked in the past in regards to 9mm handguns I would own a Browning Hi-Power and a CZ-75. Both are great pistols with a lot of history and lots of people really like them. I like them just fine when I handle them, but after I rented them a couple of times I found I truly disliked the way they felt when firing. The CZ’s controls were out of reach of the fingers on my right hand. I had to shift the gun to release the slide. The Browning but the heck out of the web of my hand and just felt awkward to fire. 
 

Try and rent or borrow an example of each of those guns and try them out. 

I don’t think he’s actually anticipating buying. Just discussing the Army’s decision. I could be wrong.

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Either of the three will do the job. Personally I own the M17, and while I was a bit ambivalent about it at first I can tell you it's a very sweet-shooting pistol. The only negative I found is that the heat from firing it transfers to the trigger after awhile. I've always been a Beretta 92 fan, and I like the M9A3 although I don't own one. I dislike Glocks, but that's a personal prejudice.

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I once carried a glock and knew officers that were good shots but did not do well with the glock due to ergonomics.   I always did fine, maybe because it reminds me of a luger ergonomically. I've never tried the 19x though.  Curious about it.   

 

I've once traded a deputy for his beretta and before I carried it , I tried it out and it was OK, just not great.  I since put a 22 conversion and wilson combat thin grips and love it but wonder if the m9a3 is better.  

 

The m17 is really trying to make my 1911 jealous.  It's super wonderful.   It's better than the original Henry with the 21 round mag if you get my meaning.   

 

Since I traded guns toward a  tractor for farm work, the glock 19x is trying to get me to adopt it.  The m9a3 is not in stock around here but I figure it will be soon.   

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6 minutes ago, Trigger Mike said:

Since I traded guns toward a  tractor for farm work, the glock 19x is trying to get me to adopt it.  The m9a3 is not in stock around here but I figure it will be soon.   

Something I forgot to mention that I do not like about the 19X. Gen 5 magazines will not insert into the gun because the front strap on the grip is extended. Why? No clue, but it takes older magazines just fine and if you get Gen 5 mags you either have to change the Mag floor plate or modify the front strap of the gun. I heard the Army wanted the longer front strap. 

Edited by Pat Riot, SASS #13748
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19 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Of the three you asked about, the SIG. I just don't like the feel of the glock, and though I've handled the Baretta quite well, I think I'd rather the Sig. 

Since you DIDN'T ask, in 9mm I prefer a Hi Power, and overall favorite, a 1911. Honorable Mention, Star Firestar. 

Just had my 1990 vintage Firestar M-43 refinished.  It's a brute weight-wise, but it has NEVER failed to do the job.  I carried it in the top of my left boot for almost 18 years.  Starvel finish was crap so I had it refinished in black.  The smith who refinished it put a new stainless firing pin in it because he said the original was gettin "ratty".

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