Cowboy guns only??

[Shooting Bull]

8 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

One word:  Ayoob.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, he was the one who started the RUMOR that you should never use reloaded ammo in a self defense situation.  His reasoning being that an unscrupulous prosecutor could use that as proof of a less than stable mental state.  Problem is he's never once been able to show that having been done in real life.  I don't carry handloads myself, but I wouldn't let Mr Ayoob's advice deter me if I needed to. 

[El CupAJoe]

1 hour ago, Snakebite said:

If you shoot someone or use a gun YOU'VE got troubles, it doesn't matter who you are or where your live. The best thing you can do when conversations move in this direction is to just keep quiet about what you have, where you have it and what you are going to do. This stuff Never goes away!  

I agree that having to use deadly force is a tragedy that i never want, nor desire anyone else to have to go through. I am very grateful for the men and women who have put their lives on the line to keep our country free and our streets safe.  I have no reservations about the existence of evil in this world or the need to stand against it to protect the innocent.  I spent my high school years in an African nation with very restrictive gun laws.  Every night you could hear the AK47's and G3's as police and bandits fought in the city.  I had a classmate who's mother was killed by car jackers inside their gated community.  My dad was driving to work one day and was confronted by the sight of 50 heads on spikes from where thugs from one community had run through the neighboring community and butchered a bunch of people with machetes. I have heard stories about people walking to a police station to report their car jacking only to find the person taking their statement was one of the car jackers.  I didn't loose my AR-15 in a tragic boat accident, if the tyrants want it, it's on them to figure out how to get it away from me, because it's not my gun they are actually after, it's the truth that lives inside of me.  My AR is for fights that are not of my choosing.  There are better tools for other types of fights.  

 

Soap box put away, 

If I hear a bump in the night or some wild dogs attacking my cat, I'm more likely to grab my rossi 92 than my AR, it's more discreet for animal control purposes. I carry a modern double action revolver for defense because I am more concerned about contact shots and harder targets than I am concerned about needing more than 6 rounds to get my family safely out of a bad situation and i like the simple manual of arms for my wife and kids.  I have also been carrying my cap and ball revolvers in very very low probability of use scenarios because i like them.  Last night for instance, we had a church leadership meeting after a very busy week and pretty much everyone there was one notch above wearing pajamas. Everyone there knows i carry and iwb just seemed too uncomfortable for the friendly atmosphere so I went in my crocks with my 1858 Remington in my cowboy rig.  

 

To the OP, if you're at the place in life where the defense of liberty is no longer a cause you will be able to execute yourself and you can further the deterance of tyrants past your years by putting your tools in someone else's hands, and your cowboy guns are sufficient for your needs, I put no fault on you for choosing to do exchange one for the other.  These ramblings are my own thoughts I'm not going to say that snakebite is wrong to caution others to keep these matters to themselves, there is wisdom in his words.  For myself, I think that there are also times that require someone to damn the torpedoes and let tyrants know that we will not be trampled on, stay away. I have probably got quite a few years left in me, and I intend to live them free.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

1 hour ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

 

Yeah, he was the one who started the RUMOR that you should never use reloaded ammo in a self defense situation.  His reasoning being that an unscrupulous prosecutor could use that as proof of a less than stable mental state.  Problem is he's never once been able to show that having been done in real life.  I don't carry handloads myself, but I wouldn't let Mr Ayoob's advice deter me if I needed to. 

 

So very true, Shooting Bull.

 

Connected to that, I feel is the general "fear" over using a specific caliber or type of gun.   A know Mr. Ayoob's advice was well intended, but it created a lot of unneeded angst in the shooting word, all based on speculation that to this day has no basis in any known case.

As far as what you should say if you ever need to defend yourself, the ONLY statement, made should be "I feared for my life."   Under no circumstances should you anything like "the gun just went off" or "I didn't want to hurt him" or any variation on that.  

And as the local Chief of Police told my mother many years ago, "If you must shoot, shoot to kill.   That way it's self defense.  If you shoot to wound, your life was not in danger and he can sue you."

Sad, but true.

 

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

1 hour ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

 

Yeah, he was the one who started the RUMOR that you should never use reloaded ammo in a self defense situation.  His reasoning being that an unscrupulous prosecutor could use that as proof of a less than stable mental state.  Problem is he's never once been able to show that having been done in real life.  I don't carry handloads myself, but I wouldn't let Mr Ayoob's advice deter me if I needed to. 

Ayoob has testified dozens of times as an expert witness so he has substantial experience with attorneys trying to discredit the person who used a weapon.  Modifications such as light triggers can be especially harmful in court.   I believe his comments were intended to keep those same attorneys from having something else to use in court to confuse a jury to benefit a client.

 

As far as normal reloads coming into question, I can't say I've ever heard of that being an issue but as a 25 year LEO firearms instructor, I know of instances where homemade hollow points and scribed lead bullets have become a major issue in court, especially when used by a LEO.  Remember the Black Talon debacle?  And Black Talons are factory ammunition.

 

Many departments mandate that off duty weapons may only be used in a "Stock" configuration, other than aftermarket grips or sights, and that factory ammunition must be carried.    I also know that when you use your weapon, the LEO's do take the weapon and unexpended ammunition for examination.  If this is a real concern for our LEO's, shouldn't it be of concern for citizens?

[Ozark Huckleberry]

Whereas:

1. After a shooting is the WORST time to start thinking about legal defense,

- 'I've never heard of a prosecutor using XXX in a trial.' Fair enough and a very valid point. But lots of things have happened recently that we all would have scoffed at just a few years ago.

 

and, whereas:

2. It isn't just about the trial. The circumstances can open a session of the court of public opinion,

- People have been forced to move and literally live in hiding because of how a compliant media was worked by family/friends of the person who was shot, with no consideration of the facts of why he or she was shot.

- Depending on the state laws and circumstances, the criminal trial could be a precursor to a civil trial, where the perceptions of a jury are much more likely to be manipulated.

- It isn't just about me -- it's about my family as well.

 

therefore:

I consider the minor amount of adjustment I have to make to deny any advantage to an opposing counsel to be inconsequential in the big picture.

 

Back to the auto analogy. I don't put on a seat belt because I expect to crash,, or because I'm afraid of a ticket. I put it on because it's a piddling effort, compared to what I would have to deal with if circumstances beyond my control brought about the worst possible situation. 

 

Carefully avoiding any comment regarding Derek Chauvin's actions, the trial, etc. here, but I doubt that Chauvin started that day expecting anything out of the ordinary to happen. But when it did, he arrived on scene with the preparation, the resources, and the mindset that he brought with him. 

[Ramblin Gambler]

5 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

 

Yeah, he was the one who started the RUMOR that you should never use reloaded ammo in a self defense situation.  His reasoning being that an unscrupulous prosecutor could use that as proof of a less than stable mental state.  Problem is he's never once been able to show that having been done in real life.  I don't carry handloads myself, but I wouldn't let Mr Ayoob's advice deter me if I needed to. 

 

Not to be rude, but your ignorance of the situation doesn't mean it never happened.  Prosecutors have often in the past used that as a way to attack.  As far as I know, that specific scenario has never been successful and even if it was, it isn't successful anymore, but it doesn't mean it was NEVER done and that prosecutors don't try it.  The closest example I know of to what you said was a guy who had hand loads in his self defense gun that his wife used to commit suicide.  He was convicted of murder because the forensics people tested factory ammo they found in his house and determined based on the GSR that the shot did not come from point blank range.  That was an Ayoob story and I think the guy's conviction was eventually overturned on appeal.  I've heard from attorney's who specialize in self defense shootings and they say it still happens, and sure they can beat it, but why make things tougher on your lawyer?  In that case they were specifically talking about decorating your guns with skulls and crossbones and the like, but the argument was the same.  They try to use it to convince a jury that you're an animal.  The defense to that argument is to show how common it actually is. 

 

It still happens.  Look at the case of Toni McBride who shot a guy almost a year ago (I think).  LAPD and a competition shooter.  If memory serves, I think she even had a jam in the middle of this, did a quick tap/rack and shot him again.  The family of the dead guy is absolutely going after her for being blood thirsty based on how good she was with her firearm.  Their lawyer is talking about it in interviews.  Hopefully he won't get anywhere, but he's absolutely going to try. 

 

Concentrating on handloads in those 30-40 year old ayoob stories is missing the point.  Anything out of the ordinary will be used to show you're bloodthirsty.  Why make things tougher on your lawyer? 

 

 

[Shooting Bull]

Just to be clear, I have never carried handloads in my self defense guns.  Most logical advice I've ever heard is to carry what your local PD carries.  This makes sense to me for a number of reasons so this is what I do.  (Although I stand by my statement that I would "if I needed to". ) 

 

As to Mr Ayoob's story.  I haven't followed him in a very long time.  Back when I did his advice seemed logical but I didn't hear him give any examples of this being used by prosecutors.  It was him saying it COULD happen.  Has it ever happened?  Seems pretty likely.  Will it happen in the future?  Seems even more likely.  But again, I didn't hear Mr Ayoob give any examples of it happening at the time.  

[Captain Bill Burt]

If modified guns could be an issue in court I can see myself explaining why I had my 73 shortstroked, lever safety removed, bigger front sights, and a 1.25 lb trigger.   No thanks.  My Mossberg is stock and shooting store bought ammo. 

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

I've heard the recommendation to use what ammo your local pd uses. But I've always thought the other attorney will then say, oh you think you're a cop now. They will attempt to twist whatever facts there are against you.

 

If a shooter said they'd never had any gun/self defense training they'll say you are inexperienced and didn't know what you were doing.

If the same shooter said he's had extensive training shooting and for self defense they'll characterize you as a wanna be gunfighter who couldn't wait to shoot someone. That's how it goes.

99% of it is whether the shooting was justified or not.

[Hashknife Cowboy]

Cowboy guns fit my lifestyle, modern guns are the result in the changes in our social norms.  I feel perfectly capable to defend me and mine with cowboy guns but with 27 years in law enforcement behind me, I will acknowledge that there is a place for black plastic, large cap magazines  and 1911 style guns.  

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

My first shooting was as a LEO.

My weapon was a dept approved 1911, .45acp built by Armand Swenson with hard chrome finish. Ammo was dept approved Super-Vel hollow point. 

In court I was asked why the hp rounds. Stated less ricochet hazard and better stopping power.

Was ruled justifiable shooting.

Spent the next almost 5 yrs tied up in civil court thanks to the BG's family......

OLG 

 

[watab kid]

no , ive not ever thought to limit my collecting/accumulation to only SASS guns , i have a bunch as all of us do , ive divested two military collections over the last 15 years and still have some items that i may or may not keep , i look at my SASS guns as tools , they are bought to operate with disregarding how they get treated [ i dont abuse intentionally] but i dont baby them at all , not concerned with resale or preserving value in these , i shoot them hard , 

 

i have a few i shoot a lot but they still get treated as collector or valuable items , i will shoot everything i own , shame there is so little time tho , some get a lot of neglected range time , i often feel bad about that , 

[Dusty Morningwood]

On 4/26/2021 at 8:10 AM, July Smith said:

Not to derail this thread, but how did you get a Henry in 44 Russian?

July. The rifle was .44-40. had chamber sleeved to .44 Special to match my Open Tops. Then I sent the carrier to a SASS guy ( can't recall who now) who modified the face so it would feed short cartridges. I can actually load a mixed bag of .44s (Russian, Colt and Special) into the magazine and they feed fine.

[Chuck Steak]

Interesting points.  The suggestion that the name, type, or caliber of defense weapons wouldn't or couldn't be used effectively against a defendant is erroneous and dangerous to assume - look up Harold Fish and the way his prosecutor framed his use of a 10mm hollow-point instead of some less lethal less scary abomination.

 

Try and recall the media frenzy over Black Talon bullets - sharp "talons" shredding vital organs as they spun through victims producing devastating wounds yad yada yada...  even had doctors testifying that not only these bullets horrific - but they also increased the danger to the attending surgeon because the sharp talons on these bullets would slice through surgical gloves and cause horrible wounds to the poor doc' dong the lifesaving surgery.

 

Great bullets, PR nightmare so Winchester stopped production.  The physical, ballistic, and MEDICAL truth was that wounds produced by "black talons" wound be indistinguishable from wounds produced by any other hollow-point bullets of the same caliber.

but they had a scary black coating and an even scarier name - coupled with a cross section of society that hates firearms.

 

There is no such thing as a "cowboy gun" they are all just guns - and ALL guns are bad - so elect your representatives accordingly

[Sawhorse Kid]

Yes and Always, Only I have a problem with the thought of getting rid of any of my guns ...... evens the ones I do not use. 

[Black RZR]

Yeah I have traded off a couple modern to buy more cas guns. 

I have one AR.and one black pistol. Everything else are single action including 1911. That's my carry gun

[bgavin]

On 4/25/2021 at 7:43 AM, Dantankerous said:

Naw... I'll take a properly set up 870 over a coach gun for HD anyday.

Indeed...
My 870 Wingmaster is a 20" barrel, with the extended magazine that looks like an over-under.
Filled with #1 buck.

[Hendo]

12 hours ago, Chuck Steak said:

 

Try and recall the media frenzy over Black Talon bullets

Thank God we abandoned those evil, racist Black Talons and replaced them with kinder and gentler Ranger Ts. 

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

Make no mistake, if you are involved in a self-defense shooting, you WILL be vilified from every possible angle and not just by the attorney; the press will jump on it as well. The climate we have is "guns are bad" and anyone who uses them is bad. Oh, the criminals? well, they are just "having a bad day" or "disadvantaged" or some other utter nonsense. If you work for a living, take care of your own and dare to defend such, you are wrong. Look around, even the folks whose job it is to carry and defend are being hung out to dry for actually daring to do their jobs. If you think John Q Public is any different, you are sorely mistaken.

[Chuck Steak]

8 hours ago, Hendo said:

Thank God we abandoned those evil, racist Black Talons and replaced them with kinder and gentler Ranger Ts. 

 

Its funny because for a while people used to joke that the SXT in 'Ranger SXT' meant, Same X-act Thing

 

Style over substance - its the world we live in.

[Dantankerous]

2 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Make no mistake, if you are involved in a self-defense shooting, you WILL be vilified from every possible angle and not just by the attorney; the press will jump on it as well. The climate we have is "guns are bad" and anyone who uses them is bad. Oh, the criminals? well, they are just "having a bad day" or "disadvantaged" or some other utter nonsense. If you work for a living, take care of your own and dare to defend such, you are wrong. Look around, even the folks whose job it is to carry and defend are being hung out to dry for actually daring to do their jobs. If you think John Q Public is any different, you are sorely mistaken.

 

Agree mostly but also depends on where you live. Some geographical locations will be much worse for a self defence situation than others especially if the people defended against politically make a better "victim" than somebody else might.

 

I believe anybody who has a gun for self defence whether in the home or on their person as they travel would be very well served to have a legal backup plan. Something like a membership in Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network or US Law Shield. Look into those. 

[Barkeep Casey]

Do I think that Cowboy Guns and Calibers are efficient or as effective as modern guns and Calibers? NO.

Do I think that a Seasoned Cowboy Action Shooter could hold his own with 99% of the population in a self defense situation, even if the perpetrators had modern guns? YES.

[Dantankerous]

IF i was to make one of my Ruger 45 Colts available for HD use I sure wouldn't be using cowboy action ammo although the old 255 grain 45 Colt round stopped a lot of threats over the years... it has quite the track record. Today I'd be most likely using the Hornady Critical Defense 185 grain load.

 

The SxS however, 00 buck still works wonders.

[DeaconKC]

Cowboy guns for self defense? Yup, they could still be used, if you are fore warned [which, to be honest, applies to modern stuff too], able to load them all. Shotgun? Yup a SxS with buckshot would still be formidable. SAAs and clones? Yup, all 6 in the cylinder full of Silvertips will do the job. Levergun? 10-15 rounds of .357 Magnum, 44 Magnum or 45 Colt will certainly suffice. Or a Model 12 Winchester with 6 rounds will work just as well as a 870 or 590. Worried about a handgun reload? Use a S&W with HKS speedloaders.

[Captain Bill Burt]

3 hours ago, Barkeep Casey said:

Do I think that Cowboy Guns and Calibers are efficient or as effective as modern guns and Calibers? NO.

Do I think that a Seasoned Cowboy Action Shooter could hold his own with 99% of the population in a self defense situation, even if the perpetrators had modern guns? YES.

I agree, and a seasoned Cowboy Action Shooter who is also familiar with modern guns is even more of a force to be reckoned with. 

 

Imagine facing Sidekick and Tator armed with Glocks and AR-15s.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

On 4/25/2021 at 3:56 PM, Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461 said:

 

  When I started shooting CAS an LE buddy said to me “what the hell are you thinking? You ARE a gunfighter quit playing one. Every hour you spend playing with your cowboy guns is time away from maintaining  critical skills with real world arms”

 

There are always guys like this. So, why go camping with your kids, to dinner with your wife, fishing with your friends, riding your bike, traveling, etc. when you should be maintaining your critical skills with real world arms?

 

The same ones who tell you that if your really actually truly loved your family you'd get gun X rather than your gun Z...

[Chuck Steak]

A continuing thought...

 

Could someone use an Uberti Cattleman or Ruger Vaquero for personal defense?

Absolutely.  

If it is chambered in ,357 Magnum the choices of high quality defensive ammunition are quite plentiful

 

Could that same person use a SxS coach gun with exposed hammers for home protection?

Absolutely.

 

Could a Marlin 94 or a Winchester Model 66-73-92 chambered in any of their common calibers be used for home defense?

Every day .

In fact, with the right ammo you can put venison on the table with pretty much the same bullets you would use for self defense.

 

But why?

 

I use a chainsaw - not an axe.

I shave with a Norelco, not a straight razor.

My 2013 four cylinder VW will do 0-60 faster than a 1970 Chevelle SS-396 - the exhaust note from a big-block Chevy sure is sweet but my VW will maintain that speed comfortably, longer, quieter, and with less gas.

...and it has a radio that plays music using a signal that is picked up from a satellite orbiting the planet

 

If there is reason to carry - I'm going to carry like I mean it.  While it may be true that the typical cowboy action shooter with a single action wheel gun can out shoot the average Joe six-pack with his shiny new whatever-generation-we-are-in-now-Glock but I'm not interested in leveling the playing field.

My intention will NEVER be to prove that all I need is my trusty old cowboy six shooter to protect me and my family when the road agents attempt to rob my stage coach.   The road agents had better make sure they come prepared.   I will never run dry before Josey Wales.   Captain Red Legs would have been shot down like a dog with a few rounds left over to cover the horse ride back to the ranch.  When the savages attack my ranch, I am not going to need granny to reload my muskets nor am I going to have the need to reload my scatter-gun ever other shot,  The savages had better make sure that they come prepared because my goal is to repel the first wave without having to reload. 

 

Everyone should make their decisions based on their own knowledge training and experience,  They should also make sure that nothing is left to chance when the lives of friends and family are at stake.

 

 

 

 

[Hendo]

Whereas I do advocate for training and have a lot of respect for tactical training, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be clearing blocks in Fallujah at this point in my life.

I'm good with my 1911 and would feel equally comfortable in my abilities with my cowboy guns loaded with .357 JHPs.

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

7 hours ago, Chuck Steak said:

 

My 2013 four cylinder VW will do 0-60 faster than a 1970 Chevelle SS-386 - the exhaust note from a big-block Chevy sure is sweet but my VW will maintain that speed comfortably, longer, quieter, and with less gas.

...and it has a radio that plays music using a signal that is picked up from a satellite orbiting the planet

 

 

My heart weeps you would compare a 4 cyl VW to a 1970 Chevelle SS 396. You keep the VW, I'll take the gas-guzzling Chevelle EVERY time.

My '70 SS 454 was sweet, wish I still had it. 

As for firearm choice... I'll take em all. And if I actually did have any (), I'd have ones that would go bang lots a times.

[Chuck Steak]

I am a loyal fan of Chevy muscle cars and Ford pickup trucks.  The sad part remains, that just like a modern pistol with premium ammo will dispatch bad guys far more effectively than any of the pistols that were being used to gun down villains in the wild west, my VW Turbo has more factory HP than most of the muscle cars that came out of Michigan during the Mid-1970's

 

At the end of the day - the speed limit doesn't care how many horses are hiding under the hood of my Vee-Dub and six rounds from a .36  cap and ball pistol will kill you just as dead as a 20 round magazine of SXT's from a $4000 gucci Glock - and depending on what state you live in, those hollow point bullets and 20 round pistol mag MIGHT get you tossed in jail while the villain with the six shooter walks free.

 

My heart weeps too -

[Captain Bill Burt]

2 hours ago, Chuck Steak said:

I am a loyal fan of Chevy muscle cars and Ford pickup trucks.  The sad part remains, that just like a modern pistol with premium ammo will dispatch bad guys far more effectively than any of the pistols that were being used to gun down villains in the wild west, my VW Turbo has more factory HP than most of the muscle cars that came out of Michigan during the Mid-1970's

 

At the end of the day - the speed limit doesn't care how many horses are hiding under the hood of my Vee-Dub and six rounds from a .36  cap and ball pistol will kill you just as dead as a 20 round magazine of SXT's from a $4000 gucci Glock - and depending on what state you live in, those hollow point bullets and 20 round pistol mag MIGHT get you tossed in jail while the villain with the six shooter walks free.

 

My heart weeps too -

LOL, but will it keep up with a modern small block Chevy? 

[Chuck Steak]

1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

LOL, but will it keep up with a modern small block Chevy? 

 

Touché  - not by a long shot - but a ZO6 Corvette costs four times as much as my GTI and most of that 650 HP is just wasted on silly things like speed limits.

 

I  must admit - that V8 motor sure does pur like a kitty cat when you put your foot in it - my VW Bunny might be fast, but it sounds more like an angry sewing machine than a muscle car. 

[ShadowCatcher]

Interesting conversation here.

 

A couple of opinions/points if I may.

 

Mr Ayoob's comments about reloads and modified firearms were not to say that a prosecutor will always or even once in a while attack through that approach, nor to say you  should not do this.  What he was pointing out that it is a potential avenue of attack, and therefore your defense lawyer should be aware of this and have reasonable lines of defense in place.  All of those specious attacks can be defeated if planned for, but make sure you and your lawyer can articulate why it was a choice made for technically good reasons (less recoil for better handgun control, improved accuracy, reduced over penetration and risk to bystanders, less chance of ricochet, etc.).  

 

The advice about using what the local PD uses is beneficial as it allows you to refer to the same rationale that the PD used in selecting it, helping establish/maintain a shroud of virtue or moral high ground in your SD shooting, plus generally speaking factory loaded ammunition is more reliable than handloads, at least based on the number of squib loads and other issues I see at ranges, when compared to using factory loads..

 

One thing we have proven is CAS is that there is no target too big or too close to not miss it.  If your scenario involves only one or two assailants you might do just as well with a 5 shot cap and ball revolver as with a Glock 17.  If there are more assailants, or if you have to reload though, things can go real pear shaped real fast.  If you are limited because that is the state of the art in technology (pretend it's 1875) and your threat assessment requires enhanced firepower, you wear multiple guns and keep a rifle handy. 

 

Since it's not 1875, and there are more powerful and reliable firearms available - the only justification for using antique technology is romance.  These days urban centers have feral humans running rampant and in groups, so unless you're riding with a posse all the time, or never have to go anywhere that there are crowds, you might want to stick with the best technology available.  If you're sufficiently rural that you can carry a six shooter and have a lever gun nearby, you might be fine.   

 

I love my cowboy guns a lot, and I have a lot more money invested in the than in modern guns, but my defense guns are as modern as I can get, and I like the Federal HST 147 or Federal 230 gr Hydra-Shok loads for my pistols, and IMI 62 gr green tips for my ARs.

 

I have minimized my modern weapons count, and am selling my .270 and one of my carbines as I don't hunt anymore, as well as a few unused handguns.  I'm paring it down to summer weight and winter weight pistols (2 of each), a couple of AR's, and all my cowboy guns. If we have a TEOTWAWKI event, I can use my cowboy rifles or my AR to hunt food - won't be worrying about game regs at that point.  My AR will handle to 400+ yds, and my others will suffice for close in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Okay I live in a suburb and our houses are maybe 20 feet apart. I'm not going to use my AR15 for home defense. I have several guns around the house that I can get to. 9mm in the back room, a S&W Revolver in my living room, a pump shotgun in the basement and another revolver upstairs where I hardly ever go. My SAA's would be as sufficient as the DA revolvers, so what I'm saying in my OP is since I don't shoot most of these modern guns I have why keep them? My SAA's are all .357's. my rifle is a .357 and they can be loaded with some really good defense rounds. The only modern gun I think I'll keep is my Colt 1911 Government model.

 

I'll let you all know when I have a fire sale!!