Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 When working on C&B firearms as a gunsmith, how many if any breaks does one get from the normal legal responsibilities of neing a full fledged gunsmith? I am referring to someone who specialized only in black powder firing guns, up to and including mail order work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 As the Federal laws consider them non-firearms I don't see how they could be restricted. Local laws may add some constraints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 Not a firearm as per BATFE. Many city's do have shipping restrictions that include C&B, along with muzzle loaders. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 There is actually little if anything stated in writing as pertains to Percussion Guns. Per BATFE daffynitions, a Percussion anything is not a firearm, and as such BATFE doesn't care. Now. The other shoe. If your customer is injured or killed by one of your creations, it befalls the Lawyers to fight it out. The cost of a really competent Lawyer will take every penny one can Beg, Borrow or Steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 And if I cook a burger at a backyard BBQ and someone chokes on it, they can sue. If someone walks past my truck and smacks their knee on the bumper, they can sue. If... bla, bla, bla, they can sue. If you do anything in life that you are worried about someone suing you over, don't do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 Who actually “certifies” or licenses gunsmiths? If I wanted to put up a shingle ”HOSS- BEST GUNSMITH IN THE WEST” who could say no? I understand I could not ship pistols anywhere, or long guns out of state, but other than that, what are the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 This is not the best place to get legal advice, you really need to go to an expert, as you have already stated "facts" that are not true. For example, you CAN ship C&B pistols unless the local rules forbid it, and anybody can ship long guns out of state as long as they are going to an FFL. At least from my state, I don't know the rules for every state, and I doubt many here do. Never seen a C&B long gun, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Hoss said: Who actually “certifies” or licenses gunsmiths? If I wanted to put up a shingle ”HOSS- BEST GUNSMITH IN THE WEST” who could say no? I understand I could not ship pistols anywhere, or long guns out of state, but other than that, what are the rules? I think you have to have an FFL to take possession of a firearm. This means no one could drop off a firearm, have you work on it, then come back and pick it up. If they were to stand there while you worked on it I think you would be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 But, the Federal regs make only an item that can chamber and fire a cartridge or shotgun round a firearm. And the FFL regs apply to a firearm. I would be much more concerned that I knew all the city/county/state restrictions on muzzleloaders, including the storage of powder and caps that might apply, so that you did not accept or even worse, try to return, a muzzleloader to someone who is not legally able to own it. Find a good lawyer, or consult the NRA for someone they would recommend in your locality. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakejaw_Joe Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 5 hours ago, Hoss said: Who actually “certifies” or licenses gunsmiths? If I wanted to put up a shingle ”HOSS- BEST GUNSMITH IN THE WEST” who could say no? I understand I could not ship pistols anywhere, or long guns out of state, but other than that, what are the rules? Technically the feds do - to gunsmith other people's firearms professionally (without using time loopholes) you need a type 01 Federal Firearms License which covers dealing and gunsmithing. As far as certifications, there are a few schools that offer 2 year Gunsmithing Certifications and a bunch of online schools that are much less creditable. From what I've learned, a certification from a reputable 'attendance' program is worth its weight in gold and will only help you in licensing. EDIT - I believe antiques (pre 1899) aren't regulated by the ATF and can be worked on without license... but not 100% sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 Skip to main content You are here Home » What We Do » Mission Areas » Firearms FIREARMS MENU Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms? Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer. [18 U.S.C. 921(a)(11) and (21); 27 CFR 478.11] Last Reviewed July 13, 2020 Site Map Accessibility & Plug-Ins ATF.gov is an official site of the U.S. Department of Justice Feedback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 15 hours ago, Snakejaw_Joe said: Technically the feds do - to gunsmith other people's firearms professionally (without using time loopholes) you need a type 01 Federal Firearms License which covers dealing and gunsmithing. As far as certifications, there are a few schools that offer 2 year Gunsmithing Certifications and a bunch of online schools that are much less creditable. From what I've learned, a certification from a reputable 'attendance' program is worth its weight in gold and will only help you in licensing. EDIT - I believe antiques (pre 1899) aren't regulated by the ATF and can be worked on without license... but not 100% sure. If it's a cartridge gun, and you can buy ammo for it today. That can affect the non-firearm status. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 Definition that the Gun Control Act has for "antique firearms" The term ‘‘antique firearm’’ means— (A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or (B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or (C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term ‘‘antique firearm’’ shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel,bolt, breech block, or any combination thereof. Why is this important? Here's the definition of what is a firearm, and note the last sentence: The term ‘‘firearm’’ means (A) any weapon(including a starter gun) which will or is de-signed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm. As stated above, I personally believe that a gunsmith working only on "antique firearms" as defined in the GCA - would not be required to be an FFL. And as stated above, you need to consult a lawyer versed in firearms laws before you bet your future on non-legal non-advice. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 With sloppy Joe in office all bets are off for what the ATF will call a firearm. Supposedly they are trying to find a way to call 80% receivers guns now . It’s disgusting how they let agency’s interpret/change the law . I personally could care less to ever own a bump stock but I’m glad they got shot down on that one , it set a bad precedent. It makes it hard to do business when enforcement is such a grey area , but I suspect that’s what they want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 I was just curious due to the fact that several on the WIRE have become quite dept at what I consider to be advance skills involving the single action cap and ball revolvers. More than a couple have even shown some degree of skills with the Henry rifles. Guess I might be getting ahead of my brain on the thinking, a bad habit that gets worse as I get more time on my hands. I wood not want to suggest something that might get someone into trouble! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 56 minutes ago, Slowhand Bob, 24229 said: I was just curious due to the fact that several on the WIRE have become quite dept at what I consider to be advance skills involving the single action cap and ball revolvers. More than a couple have even shown some degree of skills with the Henry rifles. Guess I might be getting ahead of my brain on the thinking, a bad habit that gets worse as I get more time on my hands. I wood not want to suggest something that might get someone into trouble! The Henry puts you right back i to needing an FFL. Unless it is an original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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