Marshall Matt Dillon Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 AWA lightning, 38 special. Sometimes it ejects the empty and the next loaded shell at the same time. I took it apart and cleaned it. That helped reduce the frequency of it. What causes this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Marshall Matt Dillon said: AWA lightning, 38 special. Sometimes it ejects the empty and the next loaded shell at the same time. I took it apart and cleaned it. That helped reduce the frequency of it. What causes this? Get with Roger Rapid. He's one of the Lightening experts around these parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Rapid Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 Marshall Matt Dillon... Your Lightning may appear to "eject" an empty and a live cartridge at the same time but these are actually two separate incidents. Typically when this happens, the empty is ejected by being pulled out by the extractor in the bolt, and the next round coming up in the lifter stovepipes and then comes out. (Yes, the second round ejects but is not being pulled out by the extractor and kicked up by the two ejection plates.). Check to see if a new cartridge coming up in the lifter gets caught between the lifter and the two extractor plates (the two plates that come in from the side) - and is not loose when the bolt is all the way back. Also, what caliber are you shooting - and what are the OALs of your cartridges? RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Matt Dillon Posted April 4, 2021 Author Share Posted April 4, 2021 I think the lifter is just throwing the next cartridge out as it does not get caught firmly between the lifter and the extractor plates. The loaded round is loose between them when bolt is back. How do i get elevator to come up farther, and pin the round between it and the plates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Matt Dillon Posted April 4, 2021 Author Share Posted April 4, 2021 I see RR described my exact problem above! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 Marshall, my own AWA's are in .45 Colt and .44-40, so I can't speak to your specific problem from experience. What I can tell you is that Lightings in general like to be clean. I know that the .45 especially has to be kept that way to prevent problems, and I'd assume a .38 Special would have similar issues to the .45. Based on what has been said here on the Wire on prior occasions, the overall length of your cartridges is also a factor in proper operation. As far as whom to ask for help when all else fails, Lassiter is who I would recommend. He helped me when a part on my .45 broke, and fixed it up with no problems. He knows his stuff. Good luck. We Lightning fanciers need to stick together. Someday, we will take over the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Matt Dillon Posted April 4, 2021 Author Share Posted April 4, 2021 46 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: Marshall, my own AWA's are in .45 Colt and .44-40, so I can't speak to your specific problem from experience. As far as whom to ask for help when all else fails, Lassiter is who I would recommend. Good luck. We Lightning fanciers need to stick together. Someday, we will take over the sport. H.K., i did also purchase an AWA in 45 colt that looks, and has claims to being unfired and “as new”, but not gonna mess with it until i get this 38 straightened out. I will see Lassiter at the shoot in a few days if he goes, but wanted to try to fix myself before that shoot if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Rapid Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 Hi Marshall Matt Dillon Oooops, my bad - I see that you said ".38SPEC." I understand that your cartridges are .38SPEC, but is your rifle a .38SPEC or a .357? RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Matt Dillon Posted April 4, 2021 Author Share Posted April 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Roger Rapid said: Check to see if a new cartridge coming up in the lifter gets caught between the lifter and the two extractor plates (the two plates that come in from the side) - and is not loose when the bolt is all the way back. Yes, that is my problem. How to fix? 38, not 357 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc roy l. pain Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 Lassiter is the man. He has done an Awa for my wife and a Pedersoli for me. Both run 38’s without a hic if we can do our part. True that they need to be kept fairly clean, but the biggest factor to running smooth is bullet shape. Neither of ours will tolerate a truncated cone bullet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Rapid Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 Marshall Matt Dillon... • Okay on .38SPEC (if it was .357 - and even though a .38 will shoot in a .357 - you would want to be using .357 cartridges or .38SPEC cartridges with bullets seated as close to 1.60" OAL as possible. • Check how snugly lifter fits in trigger assembly (Fig 21 in document I sent you). It is held in place by friction and will not hold cartridge up firmly if it is a sloppy fit. • Check that screws (one on each side) are snug (not TIGHT) on the extractor plates/cartridge guides (Fig. 29 in document). • Does it appear that the bottom of the extractor plates/cartridge guide have been reshaped by a pervious owner and are not flat? If so, changing the shape will alter space between lifter and bottom of extractor plates. • If the two screws are snug, can you wiggle the extractor plate/cartridge guides around - i.e., are they loose? (You can reach in the open port to try to move them.) • The two pointed tabs on the rear of the lifter (Fig 41) engage with a ramp on the bottom of the bolt. As the bolt moves back the ramp pushes down on the two pointed tabs which forces the lifter to pivot up. If those tabs are worn - or the ramps on the bottom of the bolt is work (not likely) that will cause the lifter not to come up all the way. == Key to how the Lightning works (all makes) is that the cartridge comes up and gets pinched between the lifter and the two cartridge guides/ejection plates, and stays snug until the bolt comes forward, at which point the bolt simultaneously pushes the round into the chamber as the ramp on the bottom of the bolt releases the lifter. Interested to know your findings... RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Matt Dillon Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 5 hours ago, Roger Rapid said: • Check how snugly lifter fits in trigger assembly (Fig 21 in document I sent you). It is held in place by friction and will not hold cartridge up firmly if it is a sloppy fit. Nice snug fit. No burrs. Must squeeze together to fit in. Quote • Check that screws (one on each side) are snug (not TIGHT) on the extractor plates/cartridge guides (Fig. 29 in document). Snugged Quote • Does it appear that the bottom of the extractor plates/cartridge guide have been reshaped by a pervious owner and are not flat? If so, changing the shape will alter space between lifter and bottom of extractor plates. Yes, someone has had their fingers on them. They show grind marks. I will measure them for thickness and flatness today. Quote • If the two screws are snug, can you wiggle the extractor plate/cartridge guides around - i.e., are they loose? (You can reach in the open port to try to move them.) Tight Quote • The two pointed tabs on the rear of the lifter (Fig 41) engage with a ramp on the bottom of the bolt. As the bolt moves back the ramp pushes down on the two pointed tabs which forces the lifter to pivot up. If those tabs are worn - or the ramps on the bottom of the bolt is work (not likely) that will cause the lifter not to come up all the way. They show polishing has been done Quote == Key to how the Lightning works (all makes) is that the cartridge comes up and gets pinched between the lifter and the two cartridge guides/ejection plates, and stays snug until the bolt comes forward, at which point the bolt simultaneously pushes the round into the chamber as the ramp on the bottom of the bolt releases the lifter. Interested to know your findings... This is definitely the problem. Quote RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 When you asked about the Pedersoli a few weeks ago after several posts I posted the following. "This is good advice ESPECIALLY since the OP looks like a new shooter with no experience with a Lightning. The question was about Pedersoli, now we are talking AWA. An AWA is not a Pedersoli. Completely different guts. The AWA, Taurus, Uberti, USFA, and Colt are all out of production and parts are hard/impossible to find. I tell people if they want to shoot a Lightning they need to be prepared for it to become a second hobby. You have to learn how to completely disassemble/reassemble and maintain a Lightning and if necessary fashion parts. They are not for everyone. I know several people that simply cannot shoot a Lightning. For example, if you are a levergun shooter and pull back firmly on the forearm while shooting a Lightning probably won't work for you. Some versions don't have a slide lock and it is hilarious to watch some people try and shoot those. On several that do have a slide lock the lock is very weak and can wear out if the shooter is constantly pulling back on the forearm. (The Pedersoli slide lock is far and away the strongest.) Even on guns modified to shoot .38s the ammo has to be within certain specs for it to work. So if the ammo you use in your Colt revolvers does not work do not come back on the wire in a few months complaining that Lightnings are junk because they won't shoot your ammo. You craft the ammo for your gun. You don't craft the gun for your ammo." You still not have posted a photo or the specifications of the ammo you are using. As an FYI AWA ground a lot of parts to get them to fit. So the fact that a part is ground does not necessarily mean a user did it. It may take awhile but you may eventually work this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Matt Dillon Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said: When you asked about the Pedersoli a few weeks ago after several posts I posted the following. "This is good advice ESPECIALLY since the OP looks like a new shooter with no experience with a Lightning. The question was about Pedersoli, now we are talking AWA. An AWA is not a Pedersoli. Completely different guts. The AWA, Taurus, Uberti, USFA, and Colt are all out of production and parts are hard/impossible to find. I tell people if they want to shoot a Lightning they need to be prepared for it to become a second hobby. You have to learn how to completely disassemble/reassemble and maintain a Lightning and if necessary fashion parts. They are not for everyone. I know several people that simply cannot shoot a Lightning. For example, if you are a levergun shooter and pull back firmly on the forearm while shooting a Lightning probably won't work for you. Some versions don't have a slide lock and it is hilarious to watch some people try and shoot those. On several that do have a slide lock the lock is very weak and can wear out if the shooter is constantly pulling back on the forearm. (The Pedersoli slide lock is far and away the strongest.) Even on guns modified to shoot .38s the ammo has to be within certain specs for it to work. So if the ammo you use in your Colt revolvers does not work do not come back on the wire in a few months complaining that Lightnings are junk because they won't shoot your ammo. You craft the ammo for your gun. You don't craft the gun for your ammo." You still not have posted a photo or the specifications of the ammo you are using. As an FYI AWA ground a lot of parts to get them to fit. So the fact that a part is ground does not necessarily mean a user did it. It may take awhile but you may eventually work this out. Well, thanks,, i guess. We know the problem. It isn’t the ammo. The elevator does not pin the round between it and the ejection plates. All my 38 cases are the same diameter. The ejection plates have been ground on and the elevator has been modified/polished on the end responsible for raising it. Now just have to choose which one to build back up. I have not made it to my shop yet to measure things. Gun is not modified to shot 38’s. It was born a 38 spec. I have not said it is junk. I want to learn to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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