New to 97 pumps

[Maj. N. D. Gestion]

I have the chance to pick up a IAC 97

Also have the chance to get a norinco 97 wondering witch brand is better i know the IAC is a coyote cap model, not sure if the norinco has work done to it going to look at it today

[Not Dead Ed]

Search in the forums about 97 serial numbers and it will tell you if it is an early or later model.   IAC was an importer of the Norinco made guns.   

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Norinco is the Chinese company that first began reproduction of Winchester 97's back about 1990.  They directly imported firearms into the US for sporting goods retailers.   IAC is an American importer which from about 1995 was having Norinco make guns for them to import, too, before embargo.  IAC (Interstate Arms Corp) fully took over importing Norinco shotguns when an import embargo was established by the Bush administration preventing Norinco from importing sporting shotguns in 2003.   At that point, mostly just the name on the gun was what was different between the guns.

 

Starting about 2003, IAC and Coyote Cap (of Alhman's gunsmithing family in Minnesota) didn't want to continue to sell low quality guns, so they worked hard with the Chinese to make many improvements in how the Chinese were making that shotgun.  Better metal, better tolerances, better (American walnut) stocks, etc. That resulted in gradual improvements in quality and function.

 

All this leads to some guides that Cowboy shooters have developed about the general workability of these Chinese clone 97s.

 

Look for the manufacturer/importer name and the beginning two digits of the serial number.  

 

Norinco marked - very low quality.  Gun may work for cowboy shooting or may not.   Stock will usually be white Asian hardwood with red-brown paint that chips easily.   Serial number shows the year the frame was built (the first two digits of the number), and runs in the 90's or even up to about "02".  I think I've seen one with an "03" year mark.   Most 97 gunsmiths have refused to work on these guns.  I've got an "01" Norinco that will not run at anything close to even half fast.

 

IAC marked, early import before embargo) - will range from very low quality to fair quality depending on the year made.  Some have an A (or other letter) before the two digits of the year.  Both IAC and Norinco imported guns can have date marks showing 1999 to 2003 production lots.    97 gunsmiths have been pretty reluctant to work on these guns, too.

 

IAC import after embargo - mostly good quality, getting better with later date stamps.  I've got samples from 04 and 09 lots, and the ones I shoot are the 09 (2009 frame) guns.  I am pleased with my 09 series 97s, and can work with that 04.

 

IAC / Coyote Cap marked - considered the best of the IAC 97s.  Serial number will start with CB (Cowboy) instead of year digits.  Generally believed to have been built in 2013 and 2014.  Has a hammer relief design that keeps the hammer from dragging on the bottom of bolt once it's cocked.  And a few other improvements.

Very high reliability.  I really like mine.

 

Not all IAC guns are even associated with Coyote Cap, certainly none before the 04 series.  Only the CB series guns are what most folks call the Coyote Cap 97.

 

They are no longer imported (or even made - the Chinese have moved on to more modern sporting shotguns such as what IAC imports now).  Parts supply is not great.  Especially pay attention to keeping the shell stops clean, properly lubed, and retaining screws tightened and even loctited.  Losing a screw is a disaster.   When you wear one out so that it no longer feeds (most common) or front end pulls apart (also somewhat common, because the tube surrounding the magazine on the action slide breaks where welded), or action slide connector wears and no longer stays latched to bolt (happens with lots of wear), you have hard decisions to make. 

 

I would not buy a Norinco marked 97, nor IAC marked before 06.   That's my criteria.  Yours may vary.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

[Not Dead Ed]

Here, read this thread. 
it should answer your questions.   

 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

9 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Norinco is the Chinese company that first began reproduction of Winchester 97's back about 1990.  They directly imported firearms into the US for sporting goods retailers.   IAC is an American importer which from about 1995 was having Norinco make guns for them to import, too, before embargo.  IAC (Interstate Arms Corp) fully took over importing Norinco shotguns when an import embargo was established by the Bush administration preventing Norinco from importing sporting shotguns in 2003.   At that point, mostly just the name on the gun was what was different between the guns.

 

Starting about 2003, IAC and Coyote Cap (of Alhman's gunsmithing family in Minnesota) didn't want to continue to sell low quality guns, so they worked hard with the Chinese to make many improvements in how the Chinese were making that shotgun.  Better metal, better tolerances, better (American walnut) stocks, etc. That resulted in gradual improvements in quality and function.

 

All this leads to some guides that Cowboy shooters have developed about the general workability of these Chinese clone 97s.

 

Look for the manufacturer/importer name and the beginning two digits of the serial number.  

 

Norinco marked - very low quality.  Gun may work for cowboy shooting or may not.   Stock will usually be white Asian hardwood with red-brown paint that chips easily.   Serial number shows the year the frame was built (the first two digits of the number), and runs in the 90's or even up to about "02".  I think I've seen one with an "03" year mark.   Most 97 gunsmiths have refused to work on these guns.  I've got an "01" Norinco that will not run at anything close to even half fast.

 

IAC marked, early import before embargo) - will range from very low quality to fair quality depending on the year made.  Some have an A (or other letter) before the two digits of the year.  Both IAC and Norinco imported guns can have date marks showing 1999 to 2003 production lots.    97 gunsmiths have been pretty reluctant to work on these guns, too.

 

IAC import after embargo - mostly good quality, getting better with later date stamps.  I've got samples from 04 and 09 lots, and the ones I shoot are the 09 (2009 frame) guns.  I am pleased with my 09 series 97s, and can work with that 04.

 

IAC / Coyote Cap marked - considered the best of the IAC 97s.  Serial number will start with CB (Cowboy) instead of year digits.  Generally believed to have been built in 2013 and 2014.  Has a hammer relief design that keeps the hammer from dragging on the bottom of bolt once it's cocked.  And a few other improvements.

Very high reliability.  I really like mine.

 

Not all IAC guns are even associated with Coyote Cap, certainly none before the 04 series.  Only the CB series guns are what most folks call the Coyote Cap 97.

 

They are no longer imported (or even made - the Chinese have moved on to more modern sporting shotguns such as what IAC imports now).  Parts supply is not great.  Especially pay attention to keeping the shell stops clean, properly lubed, and retaining screws tightened and even loctited.  Losing a screw is a disaster.   When you wear one out so that it no longer feeds (most common) or front end pulls apart (also somewhat common, because the tube surrounding the magazine on the action slide breaks where welded), or action slide connector wears and no longer stays latched to bolt (happens with lots of wear), you have hard decisions to make. 

 

I would not buy a Norinco marked 97, nor IAC marked before 06.   That's my criteria.  Yours may vary.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

 

Good info.

 

..........Widder

 

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

I ran my 02 IAC Norinco today and it was flawless. Me , not so much. I paid a little extra for it as it was identified as "Fourth Generation", better wood and blueing and  possibly better metallurgy when bought from LGS dealer in 03. I like it.

 

Imis

[Outlaw Gambler]

Don't be afraid of either a Norinco or IAC. The Norinco's, especially the early ones, need action work to remove the clunk in the movement, IAC's not so much but some work should be done. The CB97's, that were made with cnc parts, are without a doubt the best 97's that were made. Unfortunately, the Chinese decided to use up all of their leftover Norinco parts and mixed them with the cnc parts thus causing problems with how the action worked. Then it was discovered that some of the assemblers did not do their jobs, shortcuts caused problems. For instance they installed a firing pin spring that was about twice as long as it should have been, causing misfires. 

With chrome lined bores, new steel, pressure tested to over 30,000 pounds, they are good.

[Seth Bradford]

30 minutes ago, Outlaw Gambler said:

Don't be afraid of either a Norinco or IAC. The Norinco's, especially the early ones, need action work to remove the clunk in the movement, IAC's not so much but some work should be done. The CB97's, that were made with cnc parts, are without a doubt the best 97's that were made. Unfortunately, the Chinese decided to use up all of their leftover Norinco parts and mixed them with the cnc parts thus causing problems with how the action worked. Then it was discovered that some of the assemblers did not do their jobs, shortcuts caused problems. For instance they installed a firing pin spring that was about twice as long as it should have been, causing misfires. 

With chrome lined bores, new steel, pressure tested to over 30,000 pounds, they are good.

Question for you Outlaw... Will the IAC97's load 6 or do they require modification? Thanks!

[Outlaw Gambler]

no they wont load 6 unless you clip the original mag spring by 4.5 loops or replace it with a Wild Bodie Tom load 6 kit.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

A few days ago there was an opportunity to buy an "unfired Interstate '97" at a bargain price near here.  This was in an email that went to a lot of cowboy shooters, so  I jumped on it and said I'd take it, without knowing the serial number.   Picked it up today and with much apprehension turned it over and looked at the s/n.  CB009xx.  I am a happy camper!   

Feels very good, but Comancheria Days is this coming weekend so will have wait another week to try it out.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Abilene -

Did you go buy a stack of lottery tickets, too?   What a find! 

 

GJ

[Outlaw Gambler]

Al, if I send you some $$$ will you buy me a lottery ticket or two. 

Finding a CB97 is getting really difficult, and expensive.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

19 minutes ago, Outlaw Gambler said:

Al, if I send you some $$$ will you buy me a lottery ticket or two. 

Finding a CB97 is getting really difficult, and expensive.

 

YEP.

And if a feller can find one under that initial 450 serial number, that would truly be a good find.

 

P.S. - if I'm not mistaken, the 450 number was the initial imports received by Cap that he checked

out before being sold to Cowboys.   I think John Barleycorn has some interesting history concerning

the serial numbers on those 'CB' series.

 

..........Widder

 

[Null N. Void]

I have two IAC.  One A marked is my match gun and is excellent if used with Winchester primers.  The firing pin is slightly off center and the flatter Winchester primers work better.   The other is CB marked, but doesn't eject as well as the A gun.  I've never had a problem with it in a match, it just required a lot of tinkering to get it to work reliably.  

[Max Payne]

On 4/3/2021 at 10:14 AM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Norinco is the Chinese company that first began reproduction of Winchester 97's back about 1990.  They directly imported firearms into the US for sporting goods retailers.   IAC is an American importer which from about 1995 was having Norinco make guns for them to import, too, before embargo.  IAC (Interstate Arms Corp) fully took over importing Norinco shotguns when an import embargo was established by the Bush administration preventing Norinco from importing sporting shotguns in 2003.   At that point, mostly just the name on the gun was what was different between the guns.

 

Starting about 2003, IAC and Coyote Cap (of Alhman's gunsmithing family in Minnesota) didn't want to continue to sell low quality guns, so they worked hard with the Chinese to make many improvements in how the Chinese were making that shotgun.  Better metal, better tolerances, better (American walnut) stocks, etc. That resulted in gradual improvements in quality and function.

 

All this leads to some guides that Cowboy shooters have developed about the general workability of these Chinese clone 97s.

 

Look for the manufacturer/importer name and the beginning two digits of the serial number.  

 

Norinco marked - very low quality.  Gun may work for cowboy shooting or may not.   Stock will usually be white Asian hardwood with red-brown paint that chips easily.   Serial number shows the year the frame was built (the first two digits of the number), and runs in the 90's or even up to about "02".  I think I've seen one with an "03" year mark.   Most 97 gunsmiths have refused to work on these guns.  I've got an "01" Norinco that will not run at anything close to even half fast.

 

IAC marked, early import before embargo) - will range from very low quality to fair quality depending on the year made.  Some have an A (or other letter) before the two digits of the year.  Both IAC and Norinco imported guns can have date marks showing 1999 to 2003 production lots.    97 gunsmiths have been pretty reluctant to work on these guns, too.

 

IAC import after embargo - mostly good quality, getting better with later date stamps.  I've got samples from 04 and 09 lots, and the ones I shoot are the 09 (2009 frame) guns.  I am pleased with my 09 series 97s, and can work with that 04.

 

IAC / Coyote Cap marked - considered the best of the IAC 97s.  Serial number will start with CB (Cowboy) instead of year digits.  Generally believed to have been built in 2013 and 2014.  Has a hammer relief design that keeps the hammer from dragging on the bottom of bolt once it's cocked.  And a few other improvements.

Very high reliability.  I really like mine.

 

Not all IAC guns are even associated with Coyote Cap, certainly none before the 04 series.  Only the CB series guns are what most folks call the Coyote Cap 97.

 

They are no longer imported (or even made - the Chinese have moved on to more modern sporting shotguns such as what IAC imports now).  Parts supply is not great.  Especially pay attention to keeping the shell stops clean, properly lubed, and retaining screws tightened and even loctited.  Losing a screw is a disaster.   When you wear one out so that it no longer feeds (most common) or front end pulls apart (also somewhat common, because the tube surrounding the magazine on the action slide breaks where welded), or action slide connector wears and no longer stays latched to bolt (happens with lots of wear), you have hard decisions to make. 

 

I would not buy a Norinco marked 97, nor IAC marked before 06.   That's my criteria.  Yours may vary.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

Impressive!!!

[Outlaw Gambler]

Null, you have one of the CB97's that the Chinese installed a mix of cnc and non cnc parts. The two parts in question are the carrier and the bolt. One is cnc and the other isn't. This causes a timing issue that affects the carrier dropping soon and quickly enough for the extraction and ejection of the empty shell to be done properly. Sometimes it causes the next shell out of the mag tube to hit on the top of the carrier and the empty being ejected to rattle around in the ejection port before tumbling out, if at all.

It is an easy enough fix but time consuming. What is the serial number of your CB97?

I can fix it for you, but if you don't want to spend the $ on repairs and since you are not using it I will offer to buy it from you.