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Please, please don't attempt to shame those who don't get a vaccine...


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First off I fully support those that wish to get vaccinated....if I were in different circumstances I would likely get one.  I fully support having the choice.

 

What concerns me is the increasing number of articles and sentiment directed at those that are not getting vaccinated.  Just read a new article that says those that don't get a vaccine are "free riders", "moochers", and "uninformed" and that people and voters should treat us as "what we are:  dangerous to the health of their communities".  

 

This is just flat out wrong.  Ive said it before and I will say it again...just because someone doesn't agree with you based on their analysis of data and experience does not mean they are wrong and you are morally or intellectually superior.  It simply means they have evaluated the risks and made a choice.  There is a lack of real data...it is driven by politics, financial benefit, and interpretations to drive an agenda.  The data that is out there is cherry picked, selecting tidbits that fit the narrative and casting doubt on contradicting data or data that doesn't fit that narrative at all.  I can build a case to show you whatever you want to see....and just ignore anything that doesn't align....which is what is being done.

 

Fauci now says we need 75% or more for herd immunity...he also said it could be as low as 25% earlier this year, numbers all over the board, and he admits he is not sure that is a guess.  Arguments go that until we all get vaccinated....this won't go away.  How is that working for the flu, as I believe its still around...different variants each year?  If you are vaccinated and believe in it, why do you care?  You still have to treat anyone as a potential carrier if you are that worried.

 

Please understand that as someone that has had several family  members as old as a 97 year old in a nursing home contract the virus (fine and full recovery but she had no underlying issues) all recover with no issue and minor symptoms, I have made a decision to wait for a while to get a vaccine.  I have seen plenty of vaccine symptoms, side effects, and even deaths that leak through the cracks of what the mainstream media doesn't want you to see because it doesn't fit their agenda.  Those risks, along with the risk of long term side effects or trials, that wouldn't even show up yet far outweigh the risk of contracting the virus or having complications from it as I am in good health and spend lots of time working out to keep it that way.  Again, I firmly believe the risks of the vaccine are greater than the risk of the virus for me.

 

If it's selfish for me to not want it, isn't it selfish for others to want me to put myself at risk for their benefit?  Why should I be targeted for hate because of my choices?....oh I know because it doesn't align with the mainstream left so its ok to hate in that case....If you are going to shame me, then shame anyone who is overweight, smokes, doesn't work out, drinks alcohol, doesn't wear a seatbelt, etc etc because they are all being selfish and taking away resources from those that truly need them, not as a result of poor choices.  Heck, they dont even have to put themselves "at risk" by the choices they make....

 

So before you shame someone, please think about respecting their decision and what you could be shamed for because that will be next.  I know that as time goes by, the risk of the vaccine will seem less and less and I think people may choose to get it down the road or this entire thing may just disappear in the coming months.  I also know the more people try to shove something down my throat, the more I will adamantly dig in.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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First off I fully support those that wish to get vaccinated....if I were in different circumstances I would likely get one.  I fully support having the choice.   What concerns me is the incr

I believe it is called Medical privacy.

Wait, I do have something to add. While I have not insulted not shamed any ant’vaccers, I have been called a sheep, a fool, and a coward for advocating getting vaccinated. It goes both ways. There’s f

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I couldn't care less myself. 

 

Reports from tests: 95% effective. After 3 months and hundreds of millions of shots the data on effectiveness: no charge in the 95% stat. We  were happy to go with 95% and we're living normal lives again, mostly. Almost everybody I have talked to here 70 and above has had both shots; everybody above 65 has had at least the first. That's just my informal poll hereabouts.

 

I don't see what shame has to do with it. If you don't want it, for whatever reason, you don't have to get it. I know a small number that have decided not to get it; that's their business as far as I'm concerned.

 

I think we've all made our own decisions about the issues that concern you. Nobody shoved it down our throats; not at all.

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I completely agree that shaming is wrong.  Unless one has previously given me cause, I don't question the character, morality, or patriotism of folks that strongly disagree with me.  However, I believe businesses will soon be refusing services or employment if one hasn't had a C-19 vaccine.   I predict airlines will soon be requiring having received the vaccine before allowed to fly on their aircraft.

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Get the vaccine or don’t. I myself got it, well, the first shot anyway. 
 

It’s like everything else in life. You weigh the facts and make a decision. I am fairly confident in the way I live and conduct my life, the vitamins I take, the food I eat and how I interact with people there is a pretty good chance I may never get the virus, but there’s always a chance. One cannot control microbes. 
I weighed all the evidence and opted for taking the vaccine. 
 

Later on will I regret that decision? Who knows.

Later on will you regret not getting it?

Who knows. 

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Just yesterday I found out that a preacher friend who previously recovered from the virus took the vaccine.    He did fine with minor symptoms when he had the virus but is in the hospital after getting the first shot due to side effects.   No one should be shamed either way but all will live with their decision.  

 

To wait means you can still change your mind,  but once you get it, it is too late to change your mind. 

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I think all sides could use a dose of civility around COVID issues. 
 

If the business/restaurant asks you to wear a mask in their store, then do so or exercise your right to shop elsewhere. Do not berate the clerk/server who’s working hard enough to make up for wages lost this year.  
 

My wife works part time in retail and has nearly been reduced to tears by the ugliness of people who walk to the front door, read the mask sign, walk in anyway, and lecture her when she offers a mask that the owner has requested customers wear. 

Edited by Charlie Harley, #14153
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Another thing I try to remember, when someone on a subject where I disagree, if they say, i.e., "I'm an independent thinker and make up my own mind" or something similar, I try very hard not to take it as an inference that I'm not.  If part of one's reason is that I feel like I'm doing my patriotic part, I hope others that disagree don't take the inference that they are not patriotic. 

 

There are many disputable things in life.  For us Christians, Paul wrote about disputable things in Romans Chapter 14.  And, I still struggle finding the balance of the teachings in Romans 14.  "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind."

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It's definitely a personal choice.  The good thing today is we have more options that we had a month ago.  If you don't want to use a new technology like mRNA based Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, you now have the choice of the older viral vector technology (think flu shot) with the J&J vaccine.  I chose the J&J because I think it's the more conservative approach, yet still quite effective.

 

Keep in my that over 126 million doses of vaccine have been administered to date.  Yet as of Friday, this was the latest Adverse Event report for all COVID-19 vaccines:
image.png.86164c5fe11881f4e236169863ff0222.png

And please remember that just because the event was reported does not mean that the vaccine caused or even contributed to the event.  Note that the normal mortality rate for those 65 and over would account for over 500,000 deaths for the 3 months we've been administering vaccinations (and the 65 and over crowd has received the majority of the vaccinations to date), so 1,644 is not even statistically meaningful.  At least for the short term, it's hard to argue against the safety of all three vaccines.  Long term is obviously an open question.

Edited by Ozark Shark
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Yes they can. I got one shot and am waiting on the second. Since this virus started going around I have kept a respectful distance from other people for their sake and mine. I really don't care if people believe in the vaccines or not. I don't care if they get them or not. I do insist they keep a respectful distance from me especially if they aren't wearing a mask. I will continue to do the same. 

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1 hour ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

However, I believe businesses will soon be refusing services or employment if one hasn't had a C-19 vaccine. 

If a business asks me for verification of vaccination there will be a big problem. We're going back to show me your papers mentality.

This vaccine is like the flu vaccine. It doesn't protect your from future mutations of the virus. And we know the COVID virus has already mutated.They will have to update this vaccine like they do the flu vaccine each year. They have no clue how this thing will change over time.

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1 minute ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:
1 hour ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

 

If a business asks me for verification of vaccination there will be a big problem.

So you would object if a privately owned business asked to see some sort of vaccination card?  

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I believe it is called Medical privacy.

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4 minutes ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

So you would object if a privately owned business asked to see some sort of vaccination card?  

 

4 minutes ago, DeaconKC said:

I believe it is called Medical privacy.

Actually it would be a violation of HIPAA. 
https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/topic/hipaa.html

 

But, if there were a law enacted that one must show proof of vaccination then HIPAA would not not cover that. 

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31 minutes ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

So you would object if a privately owned business asked to see some sort of vaccination card?  

Yes, just like if a private citizen asked to see my CCW permit, or drivers license. None of their business.

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46 minutes ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

So you would object if a privately owned business asked to see some sort of vaccination card?  

 

I would object. I've had the 1st shot and am going to get the 2nd. To me, it's none of their damn business.

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Businesses can't ask to see a vaccination card. According to the president persons of color have a more difficult time navigating the internet and getting the information needed to get the vaccine or information on other subjects. Thus requiring a vaccination card would be discriminatory (racist).

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I'm no lawyer, but what about if the business shows that not having the vaccine is a direct threat to customers or other employees?   I'm thinking of nursing homes, airlines, cruise ships, etc.

 

 

.

Edited by Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663
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8 minutes ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

I'm no lawyer, but what about if the business shows that not having the vaccine is a direct threat to customers or other employees?   I'm thinking of nursing homes.

 

Sorry Birdgun, I don't care what the business is. My medical history is none of any one's business but me and my doctor.

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2 hours ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

I completely agree that shaming is wrong.  Unless one has previously given me cause, I don't question the character, morality, or patriotism of folks that strongly disagree with me.  However, I believe businesses will soon be refusing services or employment if one hasn't had a C-19 vaccine.   I predict airlines will soon be requiring having received the vaccine before allowed to fly on their aircraft.

Employment maybe, but most businesses make it clear that they are "requiring" masks for employees and customers, yet 1 out of ten employees either  are not wearing masks at all or are wearing them incorrectly and no one is even mentioning it.

 

How, then, can we expect any requirements to get the inoculations to be enforced?

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2 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Some people can be total asses about CoVid and related issues. 

And damned near anything else you can think of.

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To be clear on the original post. No one should be shamed, insulted or the like for taking the vaccine or not taking the vaccine.

 

I've taken the vaccine (1/2 of it anyway). I don't care whether or not any one else has. Whether you did or didn't, all I ask is that you maintain your distance from me but I was that way before the virus.

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5 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Sorry Birdgun, I don't care what the business is. My medical history is none of any one's business but me and my doctor.

My business, my rules.  Cooperate with my rules or spend your penny somewhere else.  And if you push too hard, I will ask you to leave, and if you don't I'll have you arrested for trespassing.  At least it works that way in Arizona.

 

Frankly, from your attitude I'd as soon you stayed in Florida.

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8 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Sorry Birdgun, I don't care what the business is. My medical history is none of any one's business but me and my doctor.

Agree.  But, can business (i.e., nursing home, airline, cruise ships, etc.) refuse you employment or service?    Again, I'm no lawyer, but seems some businesses will be able to show cause.  If one refuses, no employment or service.

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3 minutes ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

My business, my rules.  Cooperate with my rules or spend your penny somewhere else.  And if you push too hard, I will ask you to leave, and if you don't I'll have you arrested for trespassing.  At least it works that way in Arizona.

 

Frankly, from your attitude I'd as soon you stayed in Florida.

 

Never mind, it's not worth it.

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Im not sure "my business my rules" works quite that way or we wouldn't have cake bakers getting sued etc...still have to comply with federal and local laws and guidelines, so as long as you are not afoul of those I think all good.  I think its good that some places do and dont require masks in places where there are not regulations, gives people a choice...like a smoking area in a casino.  That way people can pick.

 

Im not sure the airports will be able to mandate it for travel, they already looked at that pretty hard and its been a non starter so far...could change though who knows.

 

As far as mandated for employers, there are fields mandating it as mentioned.  It should be noted though that medical professionals at hospitals have had refusal rates as high as 60% of staff where not mandated...that is medical professionals.  Hopefully some could see that data like that from medical folks would give pause to some of us who are otherwise healthy to run out and get it.

 

All in all, I think my whole point was along the lines of just keeping it respectful, that those that dont want the vaccine are getting pounded on not directly in here, but from the media and their repeaters.  Honestly I think we as a society are missing the point of debate and conversation....so often now its either you believe and comply with what the mainstream media says or you are racist/homophobic/stupid etc....I appreciate the input of all here, all opinions and values (regardless of where they fall with mine) are welcome, heard, and respected.  Just wanted to share what some might be feeling to add perspective.

 

 

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We were at a Krispy Kreme store today and there was a stack of blank "COVID-19 Vaccination Record Cards" on the counter (complete w/ the CDC logo in the top right hand corner).

They are having a promotion (get a free donut if you show a vaccine card) and the guy said they were for people who forgot their card. 

 

You can print your own and fill in the blanks but regular paper is too thin ... these were nice card stock ... don't know where they came from.

One guy in line said it would not have been a problem to pickup a handful at the vaccination site he went to.  

 

Sometimes folks worry too much about what other people do ... 

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50 minutes ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

According to the president persons of color have a more difficult time navigating the internet and getting the information needed to get the vaccine or information on other subjects.

The president said that non-white people are stupider than white people?

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18 minutes ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

40, there was no need for that. :(

There hasn't been much need for anything after the original post.  I addressed it to Cyprus, but it could apply to almost every other responder who says I can't set the rules for MY business as long as I am not breaking any law and refuse service at my discretion.

 

And I'm not beyond locking the doors and going home if I'm over-ridden, and let the people who object to my way of running my business pay my employees once they don't have jobs any more.

Edited by Forty Rod SASS 3935
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I get my second injection on Friday. I don’t know what good showing a proof of vaccination card will do because you can buy fake ones on eBay and other places.

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1 hour ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

40, there was no need for that. :(

 

It's alright Birdgun. 40 is allowed his opinion as am I. As far as me patronizing a business owned by 40, I would refuse to "show my papers". If he said leave, I would....gladly.  Not only is there 20 other places to buy whatever it is that I came for, I wouldn't spend my money nor enrich someone who does not welcome my business or money.

As far as 40 not liking my attitude, he and I have never met nor are we likely to. I've never met anyone who can read someone's attitude based solely upon internet posts. With that said, I'd say that I'm far and away not the one with the bad attitude.

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