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Sweep direction improvement?


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With my long guns I prefer to perform sweeps from left to right.  Feels much more comfortable to me therefore I can go faster in that direction? Why is that?  Other than practicing my right to left sweeps, is there anything else I need to do prevent me from being directionally challenged?

 

P.S.  I'm right handed but left eye dominant.  For that reason I have to keep my left eye closed while shooting long guns. 

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SB

I like your signature line. LOL

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A lot of times, folks like to go toward their strong side as it's much easier with long guns, both to move with them and to move to them. I try my best to write ambidextrous stages where folks can choose which direction they can go. The problem comes in when I flip the script and put shotgun targets on the left cuz a lot of folks like finishing with their SG. I try my best to keep em on their toes and I always tell them "I'm preparing you for when you go to other matches"; they are not amused. Lol   I am right handed and left-eye dominant as well, but I shoot my long guns left-handed, so I switch of on which way I'll run a stage, if I have the option.

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13 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

A lot of times, folks like to go toward their strong side as it's much easier with long guns, both to move with them and to move to them. I try my best to write ambidextrous stages where folks can choose which direction they can go. The problem comes in when I flip the script and put shotgun targets on the left cuz a lot of folks like finishing with their SG. I try my best to keep em on their toes and I always tell them "I'm preparing you for when you go to other matches"; they are not amused. Lol   I am right handed and left-eye dominant as well, but I shoot my long guns left-handed, so I switch of on which way I'll run a stage, if I have the option.

As a black powder shooter, thank you!  I like shooting downwind to upwind.  When wind direction is not an issue I shoot left to right.  I'm right handed and like pushing my long guns with my left hand.  When shooting handguns I prefer right to left.

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Well buddy...you know how I shoot!!!:P

BUT... I was told to shoot in the 'flow' if movement.

I E: 10 rounds on a continuous sweep (5 targets) moving right to doorway for shotgun. (So start on your right end to left and back to end right)

When moving left...shoot right to left.

When moving right, shoot left to right.

When 'clockwise' is the option...choose clockwise when moving left...

Counterclockwise when right.

Think of flow.

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1 minute ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

Well buddy...you know how I shoot!!!:P

BUT... I was told to shoot in the 'flow' if movement.

I E: 10 rounds on a continuous sweep (5 targets) moving right to doorway for shotgun. (So start on your right end to left and back to end right)

When moving left...shoot right to left.

When moving right, shoot left to right.

When 'clockwise' is the option...choose clockwise when moving left...

Counterclockwise when right.

Think of flow.

As to answer your question: we are more comfortable left to right....as that us the movement we have been accustumed to.

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Cut 1 inch off the heel of you left foot. You'll be amazed how easy it will be to "swing" to the left.:P

 

OOPS! I meant boot, not foot.

Edited by Marshal Chance Morgun
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I definitely understand flow and try to shoot a stage however it flows best.  That is the reason for this thread.  I'll give you a specific example:

 

"Shooter starts at right window with rifle in hand. With rifle engage plate rack (6 plates) until targets are down.  Put any remaining rounds on dump target.  Make rifle safe. From left window......................."

 

The dump plate was to the left of the plate rack.  So for two separate reasons it was wise to shoot the plate rack from right to left, position of the dump plate and also because the next shooting position was to the left.  For my own comfort I shot the plates from left to right.  I shouldn't have done that.  I SHOULD be just as comfortable shooting in either direction.  I want to do whatever it takes to build that comfort. 

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21 minutes ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

Cut 1 inch off the heel of you left foot. You'll be amazed how easy it will be to "swing" to the left.:P

 

It's very well documented that I already have enough trouble walking. :lol:

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15 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

I definitely understand flow and try to shoot a stage however it flows best.  That is the reason for this thread.  I'll give you a specific example:

 

"Shooter starts at right window with rifle in hand. With rifle engage plate rack (6 plates) until targets are down.  Put any remaining rounds on dump target.  Make rifle safe. From left window......................."

 

The dump plate was to the left of the plate rack.  So for two separate reasons it was wise to shoot the plate rack from right to left, position of the dump plate and also because the next shooting position was to the left.  For my own comfort I shot the plates from left to right.  I shouldn't have done that.  I SHOULD be just as comfortable shooting in either direction.  I want to do whatever it takes to build that comfort. 

It's a 'reflex' habit...conscious thought to change. 

By the way...HOWDY!

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I've been writing stages. I'm not sure how they will go over. Almost always have a choice of gun to start. Almost always can start sweap left to right or right to left.  

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Being right-handed and right eye dominate, it is easier to look to the right when holding a long gun.  The view to the right is not obstructed by my left arm holding up the long gun.  Therefore sweeping left to right is more efficient.  

 

Regarding stage design (mentioned by several above) I like to leave gun order to the shooter.  Shooting positions are somewhat controlled by target placement and the stage description requiring specific shooting positions to be used, but NOT requiring which gun needs to be shot at a specific position.  I try to allow shooters to choose the best way for them.

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From a single position shooting comfort is a matter of stance.   If you start square on to the first target in the order, you will be "winding up" your torso as you shoot thru the sweep, either to the left or the right.  That takes more effort and control than if you start facing the 1st target in a "wound-up" position.   Your body will automatically try to "un-wind" in the direction the targets are placed.  Taking less effort.  If the stage movement is to the left for the right-handed shooter, start on the farthest right target with your torso wound-up to the right... as you naturally un-wind to the left, you will sweep across the target and be setup to then move to your left. for the next sequence.    The opposite is also true, as a right-hander, wind up to the left, and unwind as your shoot thru the sweep to the right...   technically it matters not whether one is right or left-handed, however, most folks seem to prefer un-winding in the direction of their strong side.

Edited by Griff
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3 minutes ago, Griff said:

From a single position shooting comfort is a matter of stance.   If you start square on to the first target in the order, you will be "winding up" your torso as you shoot thru the sweep, either to the left or the right.  That takes more effort and control than if you start facing the 1st target in a "wound-up" position.   Your body will automatically try to "un-wind" in the direction the targets are placed.  Taking less effort.  If the stage movement is to the left for the right-handed shooter, start on the farthest right target with your torso wound-up to the right... as you naturally un-wind to the left, you will sweep across the target and be setup to then move to your left. for the next sequence.    The opposite is also true, as a right-hander, wind up to the left, and unwind as your shoot thru the sweep to the right...   technically it matters not whether one is right or left-handed, however, most folks seem to prefer un-winding in the direction of their strong side.

 

Wow!  That's incredibly insightful.  I stand VERY left foot forward so moving from right to left would be winding me up even more.  That could easily be one reason I don't find it comfortable.  Thanks! 

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Griff, That's something I hadn't thought much about but I'm going to give it a try if I even get back to shooting. Grandson's baseball schedule and covid has kept me away for two years now. Oh, and by the way, if you have any more good tips, just p.m. me. No sense letting everyone in on "our little secret." :D

Edited by Marshal Chance Morgun
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3 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

I definitely understand flow and try to shoot a stage however it flows best.  That is the reason for this thread.  I'll give you a specific example:

 

"Shooter starts at right window with rifle in hand. With rifle engage plate rack (6 plates) until targets are down.  Put any remaining rounds on dump target.  Make rifle safe. From left window......................."

 

The dump plate was to the left of the plate rack.  So for two separate reasons it was wise to shoot the plate rack from right to left, position of the dump plate and also because the next shooting position was to the left.  For my own comfort I shot the plates from left to right.  I shouldn't have done that.  I SHOULD be just as comfortable shooting in either direction.  I want to do whatever it takes to build that comfort. 

Shooting Bull i to am left eye dominant and shoot right handed, it will always be difficult to overcome that and i under stand "Long guns with left eye shut", I shot competitive shotgun for many years and have taken lessons from the leading eye dominance coach in the US, and hes from England. He showed me how to overcome it and shoot with both eyes open. I will need to see you in person and i can show you what i was taught. However, in this game accuracy isnt always as important so some of it will not apply. I woul;d love to chat with you about it, it will apply to both pistols and rifle. Maybe see you at EOT?

As for your right to left issue....aint nothing going to fix that but practice....you know....the nasty P word. You will always be better going to your strong side naturally.

 

Hope to see you soon....CoJack

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2 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

Wow!  That's incredibly insightful.  I stand VERY left foot forward so moving from right to left would be winding me up even more.  That could easily be one reason I don't find it comfortable.  Thanks! 

No... not terribly insightful... simply the way I was trained by the military for combat...  where being wound-up is a distinct disadvantage to mobility.  Try winding up to your right when starting a left-ward movement stage... it becomes very problematic when you're using a x-draw on the left hip... stay conscious.  You can always pivot around that right foot (pivoting to the left), so that you're not getting wound up even more.

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If given a choice, I look at a longgun string for how it sets up the next gun.  Right-to-left if shooting a rifle then pistol allows me to lower the rifle to the table with my left hand while grabbing my pistol or shotgun with the right hand.

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Most right handers prefer left to right, and lefties right to left. Same way with movement. Especially with a long gun, it's just natural to go that way, body will be lined up in  normal stance when you get there. We like options, that way each shooter can shoot the stage that best suits them and their category. We have a disclaimer at the bottom of our stages I try to before read the match.

"Note; unless specified sweeps may go in either direction. Sweeps may start on either end. Examples may not indicate each option available. Shotguns any order unless specified. Cannot end with rifle. Stage Covenants apply.";) Good Luck:)

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It's natural to shoot in the direction of the flow of the stage. If you move left to right, shoot it that way so you are not going against the grain. 

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26 minutes ago, Go West said:

It's natural to shoot in the direction of the flow of the stage. If you move left to right, shoot it that way so you are not going against the grain. 

Yes, but the problem comes in when lefties shoot a stage left to right and are having to turn around to shoot their long guns. I do it sometimes because I shoot my pistols right handed, but a true lefty will have to turn back to the left... no fun.

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16 hours ago, Griff said:

No... not terribly insightful... simply the way I was trained by the military for combat...  where being wound-up is a distinct disadvantage to mobility.  Try winding up to your right when starting a left-ward movement stage... it becomes very problematic when you're using a x-draw on the left hip... stay conscious.  You can always pivot around that right foot (pivoting to the left), so that you're not getting wound up even more.

I think Griff has the most valid point on the OP question.  Shooting Bull specifically mentioned long guns with the left to right preference.  I had the same observation myself recently and came up with the same reason for why.  So what to do differently...?  One option is own it and just do it well :-) Otherwise my thought on a right to left sweep for a right handed shooter had 2 options - either use a squared to the target array stance or point your left (forward) foot at the left-most target so your finish position is natural.  With handguns I square up and don’t have a preferred direction...if anything I more naturally shoot right to left with them. 

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I don't know about your area but when I first started shooting CAS here in Oregon all of the stages at the clubs I shot with specified left to right sweeps, for whatever reason. After a while it gets ingrained in your subconscious to shoot left to right. It's taken me a lot of work to be able to shoot target arrays from right to left if they flow better that way. I shoot CC with a crossdraw and I also got in the habit of shooting my left hand (crossdraw) pistol first on all stages. I've been teaching myself to draw whichever pistol works best for the best flow on a stage. I know that particular point doesn't have anything to do with to OP and for that I apologize; I was only using it as another example of training oneself to do what works best for the best flow on a stage...

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I shoot my long guns left handed.   I always shoot my left pistol first.   But when it comes to sweeps, I prefer left to right.   I think there is a reason for this.   Here in the English speaking world, or for that matter anyplace that uses a variant of the Latin or Greek alphabets, we read and write from left to write.  It is therefore a natural progression of things, irregardless of if you are right or left handed.

The only exception I have to this is if you have to move from one part of the stage to another with your rifle or shotgun, moving from right to left is easier because it easier to keep your gun pointed naturally down range.  

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14 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

I shoot my long guns left handed.   I always shoot my left pistol first.   But when it comes to sweeps, I prefer left to right.   I think there is a reason for this.   Here in the English speaking world, or for that matter anyplace that uses a variant of the Latin or Greek alphabets, we read and write from left to write.  It is therefore a natural progression of things, irregardless of if you are right or left handed.

The only exception I have to this is if you have to move from one part of the stage to another with your rifle or shotgun, moving from right to left is easier because it easier to keep your gun pointed naturally down range.  

If you are a right hand shooter like I am, it is easier to keep the long gun pointed down range when moving down the stage going from left to right.

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8 hours ago, Smokey Bandit said:

2 options - either use a squared to the target array stance or point your left (forward) foot at the left-most target so your finish position is natural.  With handguns I square up and don’t have a preferred direction...if anything I more naturally shoot right to left with them. 

 

You nailed something I've long been guilty of, not squaring up to the target array.  I have no idea when or why it started but I shoot with my left foot way out front.  I think it's because I lean so far forward while I'm shooting.  That's one of the things I'm going to need to work on if I'm ever going to be equally comfortable shooting sweeps in either direction.

 

(I can't believe I'm asking people to help me learn how to go both ways. :blink:)

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On 3/22/2021 at 5:30 PM, Ron "Ironhead" Smith said:

You have been reading left to right almost your entire life, it's natural to progress from left to right because of that.

Now we know who the Lexdysic kids where in school. All them shooters who shoot from the right side first.

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Proper stage management. The better shooters will always figure out which target to start on in order to finish on the target that allows them to flow more smoothly to the next gun. If, the stage writer allows the option of starting L or R. I prefer to shoot the first target I see when shooting through a window. If I'm moving left to right why would I want to stop and twist back to my left when I'm already looking straight at the target on the right. It's free time, every stage has free time for the taking if one can figure out where it is. 

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Well, I don't know if this helps.  I shoot Gunfighter.  Have for several Lustrum.  I start each stage square to the target array.  I change "leads" depending on stage description, or if left to my own devices, which ever lead makes the most sense (to me).  However, if the state instructions say "Starting on Left"  I start with the left gun.

 

If you're stuck in the "We've always done it that way" rut, the only way out is a lot of practice.  Preferably live fire practice.

 

Just my Nickels worth. 

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3 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Well, I don't know if this helps.  I shoot Gunfighter.  Have for several Lustrum.  I start each stage square to the target array.  I change "leads" depending on stage description, or if left to my own devices, which ever lead makes the most sense (to me).  However, if the state instructions say "Starting on Left"  I start with the left gun.

 

If you're stuck in the "We've always done it that way" rut, the only way out is a lot of practice.  Preferably live fire practice.

 

Just my Nickels worth. 

 

 

100% agree but I don't have a problem with my pistols.  This issue only comes up with long guns. 

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Back to your OP, why do you HAVE to keep your left eye closed? Is that the only way it works for you?

Have you tried keeping both open? That's what I do, but then I shoot my long guns from the left side anyway.

I have two daughters that are both right-handed and left-eye dominant and they both "lean over" and shoot long guns right handed with their LEFT eye.

I looks a little odd, but they are both very accurate. Older one went 13 monthlies without a miss! Just some ideas.

I do think the key, as others have mentioned, is the dreaded (live fire) practice.

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3 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Back to your OP, why do you HAVE to keep your left eye closed? Is that the only way it works for you?

 

If I don't close the left eye it takes over and I can't see the sights.  

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