Aaaaaand another military question

[Alpo]

Can you skip a rank when being promoted?

I'm sure that Mr Griffin is not the best choice to learn how things are done, but -

In The Corps series, we have Lieutenant Hon, who was promoted to Major. The orders showed him promoted to Captain, date of rank 6  October, and then promoted to Major, date of rank 7 October. So he was a Captain, just not for very long.

In the Clandestine Servives series, Second Lieutenant Jimmy gets promoted to Captain, just BOOM. No stop along the way for First Lieutenant.

 

The two different things sort of confused me. If you could go from O1 to O3 without stopping at O2, then why did the other guy have to stop on O3 for a day when going from O2 to O4?

 

So does anyone know if you have to hit all of the steps, or if you can skip one or two?

[Badlands Bob #61228]

The military routinely makes medical doctors O3 or O4 right from the start.  

[Trailrider #896]

It just depends on the individual and the needs of the military.  I can't recall, but I think Dwight Eisenhower went from Colonel to MGEN or maybe from BG to LTGEN.  There were some others.  Also, battlefield commissions jumped some EM's to 2LT during WWII.  

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

There were brevet promotions to fill a specific role like the 23 year old colonels in the Air Corps during WW2. After the war they often reverted to their previous rank such as captain. 
 

Another example is Lt. Col. George A. Custer who was a brevet general during the Civil War. 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

From wikipedia

 

 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

54 minutes ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

The military routinely makes medical doctors O3 or O4 right from the start.  

And lawyers.

 

Not so common in the enlisted ranks, but I knew a Sergeant First Class who jumped to First Sergeant in 1966 because no one else was qualified to do his job on Nike-Hercules radar systems and he was bumped up to CW-1 in 1969 just before I got out of the Army.  Pretty good for a man with a GED who never finished high school.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

33 minutes ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

And lawyers.

 

Not so common in the enlisted ranks, but I knew a Sergeant First Class who jumped to First Sergeant in 1966 because no one else was qualified to do his job on Nike-Hercules radar systems and he was bumped up to CW-1 in 1969 just before I got out of the Army.  Pretty good for a man with a GED who never finished high school.

SFC to First SGT is not a jump.

 

and Dentists and veterinarians.

 

I had an immigrant coworker whose son graduated West Point, went to med school. There was a pinning ceremony at Fenway Park for all the new captains.  It looked like Captain Ong had the sharpest uniform present.

[Amigo]

Not common to actually skip a rank, but it still occasionally happens at the higher levels. One of our recent Missile Defense Agency Directors went straight from Rear Admiral (Lower Half) (one star) to Vice Admiral (three stars). 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

4 hours ago, Amigo said:

Not common to actually skip a rank, but it still occasionally happens at the higher levels. One of our recent Missile Defense Agency Directors went straight from Rear Admiral (Lower Half) (one star) to Vice Admiral (three stars). 

I bet because the position called for a three star.

[Chantry]

9 hours ago, Alpo said:

Can you skip a rank when being promoted?

I'm sure that Mr Griffin is not the best choice to learn how things are done, but -

In The Corps series, we have Lieutenant Hon, who was promoted to Major. The orders showed him promoted to Captain, date of rank 6  October, and then promoted to Major, date of rank 7 October. So he was a Captain, just not for very long.

In the Clandestine Servives series, Second Lieutenant Jimmy gets promoted to Captain, just BOOM. No stop along the way for First Lieutenant.

 

The two different things sort of confused me. If you could go from O1 to O3 without stopping at O2, then why did the other guy have to stop on O3 for a day when going from O2 to O4?

 

So does anyone know if you have to hit all of the steps, or if you can skip one or two?

 

Here is another real world example, Chester Nimitz.  He skipped the ranks of Lt Jg, Commodore (now Rear Admiral lower half) and Vice Admiral

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester_W._Nimitz#Dates_of_rank

[Sedalia Dave]

When I was in the Navy, those that graduated with high enough of a grade from electronics A school were offered the option to take advanced electronics or B school. If you did so, you were automatically advanced in rate from Airman Apprentice (E2) to Perry Officer Third class (E4). The kicker was you had to change your active duty commitment from 4 to 6 years. If you failed B school you were administratively demoted to Airman E3 but still had to full fill the 6 year enlistment.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

3 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

When I was in the Navy, those that graduated with high enough of a grade from electronics A school were offered the option to take advanced electronics or B school. If you did so, you were automatically advanced in rate from Airman Apprentice (E2) to Perry Officer Third class (E4). The kicker was you had to change your active duty commitment from 4 to 6 years. If you failed B school you were administratively demoted to Airman E3 but still had to full fill the 6 year enlistment.

Now there’s incentive to do well in the course!

 

I didn’t know there was such a rank as Airman Apprentice in the Navy. 

[Alpo]

Neither did I. Seaman apprentice I've heard of, but not airman apprentice.

 

Possibly that was otto's fault.

[Sedalia Dave]

 

40 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Now there’s incentive to do well in the course!

 

I didn’t know there was such a rank as Airman Apprentice in the Navy. 

 

35 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Neither did I. Seaman apprentice I've heard of, but not airman apprentice.

 

Possibly that was otto's fault.

 

Back when I was in the Navy

 

Sailors in pay grades E-1 through E-3 are considered to be in apprenticeships while searching or in training for a career path. They are divided into five definable groups or job comminuties, with colored group rate marks designating the group to which they belong: seaman, fireman, airman, constructionman, and hospitalman. 

 

Seaman and Hospitalman stripes are White  

Fireman stripes are Red

Airman stripes are Green

Constructionman stripes are Blue

 

BTW In boot camp everyone is addressed as Recruit and Hospitalman are not called Corpsman until they successfully graduate A school.

 

[Three Foot Johnson]

James Kirk went from Cadet straight to Captain, and was given command of the flagship NCC-1701 with -0- experience.  

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

50 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

 

 

Back when I was in the Navy

 

Sailors in pay grades E-1 through E-3 are considered to be in apprenticeships while searching or in training for a career path. They are divided into five definable groups or job comminuties, with colored group rate marks designating the group to which they belong: seaman, fireman, airman, constructionman, and hospitalman. 

 

Seaman and Hospitalman stripes are White  

Fireman stripes are Red

Airman stripes are Green

Constructionman stripes are Blue

 

BTW In boot camp everyone is addressed as Recruit and Hospitalman are not called Corpsman until they successfully graduate A school.

 

I learn something new every day!

[Chief Rick]

1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

 

 

Back when I was in the Navy

 

Sailors in pay grades E-1 through E-3 are considered to be in apprenticeships while searching or in training for a career path. They are divided into five definable groups or job comminuties, with colored group rate marks designating the group to which they belong: seaman, fireman, airman, constructionman, and hospitalman. 

 

Seaman and Hospitalman stripes are White  

Fireman stripes are Red

Airman stripes are Green

Constructionman stripes are Blue

 

BTW In boot camp everyone is addressed as Recruit and Hospitalman are not called Corpsman until they successfully graduate A school.

 

 

There are no longer Dental Technician's (DT) in the Navy, only Hospital Corpsman (HM).  There is a single "core" school that all students go to.  Upon graduation of the "core" school, the needs of the Navy (and sometimes the students grades - honor student typically gets to choose) determines whether they go dental or medical.  But, they're all called Corpsman.

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

A side note on Eisenhower:  Although his Army career began in as a cadet in 1911, and he ultimately became a five-star general and served as Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Force... he never saw a single day of combat.  

 

 

[Utah Bob #35998]

One of my favorite Ike quotes

”When I was a small boy in Kansas, a friend of mine and I went fishing and as we sat there in the warmth of the summer afternoon on a river bank, we talked about what we wanted to do when we grew up. I told him that I wanted to be a real major league baseball player, a genuine professional like Honus Wagner. My friend said that he'd like to be President of the United States. Neither of us got our wish."

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

CURRENTLY, no.  Doctors are paid as 2LTs in school, and during their residency, etc. are 1LTs.  They become CPT shortly before arriving at their first unit, so a lot of folks assume they started off that way, but it's not true.

 

For everyone else, skipping ranks is currently prohibited.  There is a minimum time in grade before you can even be considered for the next rank, and it's measured in years (7 years as a CPT before looking at MAJ, 6 years at MAJ before looking at LTC, etc).  

 

Historically, that was not true.  There are literally hundreds of examples of Captains being made Colonels or generals.  It's just not true right now.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

18 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

SFC to First SGT is not a jump.

 

and Dentists and veterinarians.

 

I had an immigrant coworker whose son graduated West Point, went to med school. There was a pinning ceremony at Fenway Park for all the new captains.  It looked like Captain Ong had the sharpest uniform present.

What became of Master Sergeant.  Looks like a jump to me.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

1 hour ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

What became of Master Sergeant.  Looks like a jump to me.

MSG and 1SG are both E8. An NCO can be one without ever being the other.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

I've been gone since 1969.  One will forget things sometimes.  "Sometimes" seems more frequent as I get older.  

[Ted Forrester]

15 hours ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

For everyone else, skipping ranks is currently prohibited.  There is a minimum time in grade before you can even be considered for the next rank, and it's measured in years (7 years as a CPT before looking at MAJ, 6 years at MAJ before looking at LTC, etc).  

 

Historically, that was not true.  There are literally hundreds of examples of Captains being made Colonels or generals.  It's just not true right now.

This is not actually accurate anymore. As of 2009, battlefield promotions are a thing again. Generally, they just bump you to the next grade early, skilling time-in-grade/time-in-service requirements, but there have been a couple cases of soldiers skipping a rank. The bump up a grade is rare and the skip a grade is even rarer. I have not heard of any officers being bumped under a battlefield promotion since it came back. Seems to only be used for exceptional enlisted soldiers. 

[Utah Bob #35998]

15 hours ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

CURRENTLY, no.  Doctors are paid as 2LTs in school, and during their residency, etc. are 1LTs.  They become CPT shortly before arriving at their first unit, so a lot of folks assume they started off that way, but it's not true.

 

For everyone else, skipping ranks is currently prohibited.  There is a minimum time in grade before you can even be considered for the next rank, and it's measured in years (7 years as a CPT before looking at MAJ, 6 years at MAJ before looking at LTC, etc).  

 

Historically, that was not true.  There are literally hundreds of examples of Captains being made Colonels or generals.  It's just not true right now.

If we got on a Big protracted shooting war they would no doubt drop the time in grade requirements. Hopefully that won’t happen.