Fall of the Alamo

[Rye Miles #13621]

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/alamo-texas-battle-ends

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

3  6  36 

And a congressman dies in combat.

Whens the last time that happened.

Bet its the Alamo.

Best

CR

 

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

I sort of wish they didn’t fix it up

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

History in hind sight is often mis-guided and attempts to create a positive narrative.

Houston commanded Travis not to engage, but to withdraw. Travis disobeyed orders.

We were told they fought for 13 days.  185 holding off 5,000. Wow these guys are hero's.

The ACTUAL  battle lasted 90 minutes.

185 +/- were killed for? Travis and Bowie's ego's? 

They were defending a ranchero and church, that had no significant military value.

Some have said that stopping Santa Ana to allow him time to gather troops and supplies actually but the rebellion at a greater risk!

I put the Alamo battle right up there with Custer's last stand. Arrogance and ego outweighed logic and actual intel.

[Blackwater 53393]

1 hour ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

History in hind sight is often mis-guided and attempts to create a positive narrative.

Houston commanded Travis not to engage, but to withdraw. Travis disobeyed orders.

We were told they fought for 13 days.  185 holding off 5,000. Wow these guys are hero's.

The ACTUAL  battle lasted 90 minutes.

185 +/- were killed for? Travis and Bowie's ego's? 

They were defending a ranchero and church, that had no significant military value.

Some have said that stopping Santa Ana to allow him time to gather troops and supplies actually but the rebellion at a greater risk!

I put the Alamo battle right up there with Custer's last stand. Arrogance and ego outweighed logic and actual intel.

 

Perhaps the actual battle only lasted an hour and a half, but the seige lasted thirteen days.

 

It DID, in fact, give others time to regroup and resupply!!  

 

The ENTIRE outcome of the conflict, like many others, hinged on timing and circumstances that had nothing to do with the opposing generals or with troop strength or training.

 

But rewriting history to satisfy some new wave agenda or to try to reduce the importance of a critical event in the timeline of occurrences leading up to the final outcome of the war, has no point and does nothing to improve that history or any relations at any level!

[Trailrider #896]

And there are those nowadays who say the defenders of the Alamo were all racists...forgetting that a number of the defenders themselves were of Mexican ethnicity, but who refused to knuckle under to the megalomaniac, despot, Santa Ana!  (Who, BTW, died penniless, wandering the streets of New York City, after his own people kicked him out of Mexico!

 

Remember Goliad!  Remember the Alamo!

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

1 hour ago, Trailrider #896 said:

And there are those nowadays who say the defenders of the Alamo were all racists...forgetting that a number of the defenders themselves were of Mexican ethnicity, but who refused to knuckle under to the megalomaniac, despot, Santa Ana!  (Who, BTW, died penniless, wandering the streets of New York City, after his own people kicked him out of Mexico!

 

Remember Goliad!  Remember the Alamo!

 

Actually, Santa Anna died in Mexico City; but you are correct that he was penniless, and had been deposed from positions of power in Mexico 11 times.

 

LL

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

1 hour ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

seige lasted thirteen days.

 

Not sure what you define as siege. The plaque at the Alamo said for 12 days there were minor skirmishes testing the strength of the forces inside. The walls were insignificant.

No new agenda, just the facts as presented at the Alamo. 

1 hour ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

had nothing to do with the opposing generals or with troop strength or training.

So 185 against 1,000 or 5,000 whatever had nothing to do with the outcome? 

You're saying it's OK for an officer to ignore a direct order from his commander?

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

2 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

History in hind sight is often mis-guided and attempts to create a positive narrative.

Houston commanded Travis not to engage, but to withdraw. Travis disobeyed orders.

We were told they fought for 13 days.  185 holding off 5,000. Wow these guys are hero's.

The ACTUAL  battle lasted 90 minutes.

185 +/- were killed for? Travis and Bowie's ego's? 

They were defending a ranchero and church, that had no significant military value.

Some have said that stopping Santa Ana to allow him time to gather troops and supplies actually but the rebellion at a greater risk!

I put the Alamo battle right up there with Custer's last stand. Arrogance and ego outweighed logic and actual intel.

 

Blasphemy!!  

 

The SIEGE was thirteen days.  During that time shots were exchanged, of course, which I propose does qualify the entire event as a "battle."  The final assault was on March 06, and may or may not have lasted ninety minutes.

 

Now, as far as "arrogance and ego," consider that it was pretty common for commanders in the field to make decisions based on their understanding of the situation as they saw it.  Communication was over vast distances by horseback and on foot; judgement was based on facts as the commander saw them, and was the basis for decisions; self-reliance was paramount.  

 

I seriously doubt that Travis, Bowie, Dickinson, Crockett and the rest decided "Hey!  Let's just stay here and get slaughtered so we can be famous!"  Unlike Custer forty years later, these officers and leaders could see their adversary and clearly understood what they faced.

 

 

                                                                                 

 

 

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

23 minutes ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

Unlike Custer forty years later, these officers and leaders could see their adversary and clearly understood what they faced.

Custer and his scouts saw the valley full of tee-pees and warriors. He just couldn't comprehend loosing to them!

My 90 minute s and the comment about skirmishes comes from the write up at the Alamo. Also the article says 90 minutes. The paintings and movies showing the Mexican's using long ladders to scale the walls also is a false narrative. A few canon shoots on the 8 or 9 foot high perimeter walls and no ladders needed. Just walk on in,

[twelve mile REB]

I really don't think it matters if it was 1 day or 100 days.  Men died, mothers and wives cried, hero's were made when hero's were needed.  They could have left but they didn't they stayed they fought and they died.  I don't include the Alamo with the likes of Custer and the Light Brigade.  Although the men were brave there leadership was flawed.