Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Black powder shotgun shells


Recommended Posts

Hello,

 

Is there a defined minimum amount of 2fg black powder for shotgun shells that will meet the "smoke factor" requirement?

 

If not, how low have you all gone and still maintain "smoke factor", knockdown power & low recoil?

 

Thank you,

 

Deputy Dan

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

SHB pg 9

Quote

Blackpowder category contestants are expected to understand they will contend with smoke obscured targets. To ensure this, all shotgun, revolver, and rifle powder charges must produce smoke at least equivalent to a baseline load of 15 grains by volume (1 cc) of blackpowder (see Blackpowder – Testing section for additional requirements).

 

SHB pg 25-26

Quote

Testing of blackpowder rounds for the production of adequate smoke will also be conducted in a similar matter as described above. Rounds should be obtained from the shooter’s loaded firearms while at the loading table. The rounds should be fired in comparison to test rounds made using the following load data:

 

- Standard .38 Special case.

- 1 cc GOEX 2F powder.

- Federal Standard primer.

- 145 grain bullet lubed with SPG.

- Powder lightly compressed with a medium roll crimp.

 

Failure of the shooter’s rounds to produce the same level of smoke as the standard rounds will result in a penalty for not adhering to the category requirements. The first offence will be assessed as a procedural penalty, the second offence in the same match a Stage DQ, and the third offence in the same match a Match DQ.

 

Edited by Branchwater Jack SASS #88854
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Branchwater Jack,

 

I read the section of the handbook you are referring too. It only mentions rifle & pistol ammunition.

I loaded a few using a MEC bushing #32. The recoil was a bit much.

 

Larsen E. Pettifoger,

 

I understand your viewpoint, but due to shoulder injuries, I need to go as low as legally possible for a lower recoil.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There are certain laws of physics that cannot be avoided.  The shot has to clear the barrel.  There is going to be some recoil.  Perhaps you need to shoot from the hip like several shooters do because of shoulder injuries.  Super puss loads ain't the answer.  30 to 35 grains with 7/8 oz of shot is about as low as you can realistically go.  1cc of powder wouldn't even cover the bottom of a 12 gauge shell.

Edited by Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Put a pad on the buttstock  and put a dead mule inside the buttstock. And get a longer barrelled shotgun, coach guns kick the worst. More weight, less felt recoil.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^^^^^

Basic physics.  If your gun weighs six pounds and you increase the weight to eight pounds the felt recoil goes down about 25%.  BP also has less felt recoil as it shoves rather than snaps like smokeless.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Dana Rasmussen said:

Branchwater Jack,

 

I read the section of the handbook you are referring too. It only mentions rifle & pistol ammunition.

 

SHB pg 9 (emphasis added)

 

Quote

Blackpowder category contestants are expected to understand they will contend with smoke obscured targets. To ensure this, all shotgun, revolver, and rifle powder charges must produce smoke at least equivalent to a baseline load of 15 grains by volume (1 cc) of blackpowder (see Blackpowder – Testing section for additional requirements).

 
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dana Rasmussen said:

Branchwater Jack,

 

I read the section of the handbook you are referring too. It only mentions rifle & pistol ammunition.

I loaded a few using a MEC bushing #32. The recoil was a bit much.

 

Larsen E. Pettifoger,

 

I understand your viewpoint, but due to shoulder injuries, I need to go as low as legally possible for a lower recoil.

 

How much shot are you putting in that shell?

 

What powder are you using?

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

How much shot are you putting in that shell?

 

What powder are you using?

It might help if we knew what kind of gun and what gauge you are shooting.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Dana Rasmussen said:

Thank you for your patience. For some reason I kept jumping to page 25 & ignoring page 9.

 

It may not make a whole lot of sense at first, but the shotgun rounds will be compared to the test rounds - which are 38's. Now, whether those test rounds are shot out of a rifle or pistol when they are compared against your shotgun rounds is not entirely defined. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dana, the folks who shoot APP say it smokes more than BP.  Possibly you could use a bit less of that.  Otherwise, everything said above.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you all for your input. My 1st question has been answered.

 

I have 7/8 oz, 1 oz & 1 1/8 oz charge bars to work with.

I have #6, #7 1/2,#8 & #9 shot.

Hulls are AA, Fiocchi & Herters.

My current powder is Kik, 2fg. I am considering switching to 777 when I run out of the Kik.

My primary BP shotgun is my double trigger 12 gauge Stoeger.  Now that I can reload all 3 ammo types I may want to try Wild Bunch using BP. :)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

777 will recoil more so you'll need to use less.  Seems that lowering the shot amount makes the biggest result for recoil.  There is another topic currently going on BP shells where Sedalia Dave descdribes lining your shot bushing with card stock to reduce the shot charge.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I load 42 gr of FFg of any bp or sub under 1 ounce in 12 gauge and 35 grains of FFg over 3/4 ounce in 20 gauge.  Shoots well enough for me.  Leaves no knockdowns standing.  Good sealing around the shell hull.

Link to post
Share on other sites

ClayBuster CB0175-12 wad

3/4 oz of shot

Remington primer. Remington primers will give the lightest recoil. Federal s the most. 
#32 MEC bushing

3F APP or Shooters World Black if using a BP sub. 
Real BP any 2F powder.

Triple 7 is 10 to 15% hotter than real BP or APP. 
 

 You can obtain a 3/4 oz load from you MEC one of 2 ways. 
Drill and tap a hole into the end of the charge bar all the way into the shot cavity. Insert a long set screw into the chamber till you get the desired shot weight / stack height. You don't want the set screw sticking out past the end of the bar.

Buy another charge bar.

Edited by Sedalia Dave
Link to post
Share on other sites

You can fine tune the powder charge using a strip cut from a notebook cover. Cut it the same width as the bushing. The carefully coil it up inside the bushing so that it fits tight against the sides of the bushing.  You can keep it in place with a little contact cement.

 

Will not work for shot I've tried it.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

You can fine tune the powder charge using a strip cut from a notebook cover. Cut it the same width as the bushing. The carefully coil it up inside the bushing so that it fits tight against the sides of the bushing.  You can keep it in place with a little contact cement.

 

Will not work for shot I've tried it.

Thanks for correcting me on that.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Dana Rasmussen said:

Thank you all for your input. My 1st question has been answered.

 

I have 7/8 oz, 1 oz & 1 1/8 oz charge bars to work with.

I have #6, #7 1/2,#8 & #9 shot.

Hulls are AA, Fiocchi & Herters.

My current powder is Kik, 2fg. I am considering switching to 777 when I run out of the Kik.

My primary BP shotgun is my double trigger 12 gauge Stoeger.  Now that I can reload all 3 ammo types I may want to try Wild Bunch using BP. :)

 

I'd reload the AAs and toss the Fiocchi and Herter hulls.  AAs have thick plastic walls and do not buckle when reloading.  I've had poor luck reloading Fiocchi hulls.  I shot some Herter shells today.  They too seem flimsy.  If you find green Gun Club hulls they reload well too.

 

If you shoot BP in a pump shotgun I'd use 777.  The residue is less corrosive than real BP fouling.  Personally I don't use BP in a pump shotgun.

Link to post
Share on other sites

One other thing. Light BP loads will not generate enough pressure to prevent blow by. Buy a good chamber brush and a swab to clean the fouling out of the chambers between stages.  PAM / Murphy's mix will work well for this. 

 

You can tell you are getting blowby because the outside of fired hulls will be dirty and covered in fouling.

Edited by Sedalia Dave
Link to post
Share on other sites

I love the blinding smoke and gouts of flame from my 10 gauge loads. I USE 3-1/2" brass shells, Walter's wads, 1-1/2g Shuetzen powder and 7-1/2 lead shot. I just fill to the tippy top.  :wacko: I'm small but the recoil is nothing when it's contrasted with the fun of the blasts. Remember, warthog Holy Black shooters have the best memories.  :wacko:

 

Just go for it. It's incredible fun. Otherwise, go smokeless.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.