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Howdy Pardners,

 

I'm new to SASS and not sure if this is the right forum or even if I should be posting stuff like this on SASS at all.  I had the following problem with PayPal about a gun I sold on Gun Broker that I think might impact others in our association.

 

I recently bought a couple of cowboy guns, primers, and powder on Gun Broker because I couldn't find it anywhere else. A lot of the stuff I paid for with Pay Pal and never thought anything about it.  To help pay for my new hobby, I sold 3 guns on Gun Broker and one of them was  done with Pay Pal.  All 100% legal transactions that were shipped to a valid FFL holder.

 

A week ago I got an email from Pay Pal saying I had a message in my account (see the message below). 

 

I’ve sent Pay Pal a couple of emails and called them and have always got the same answer - there's nothing I can do about it and to read their acceptable use policy.  I currently have about $1,000 in my Pay Pal cash account that they won't let me access for 6 months.  They also won't release their access to my credit card and bank accounts for 6 months. 

 

I included the part of their Acceptable Use Policy below. According to PayPal, we belong in the same category as narcotic dealers, promoters of hate and violence, dealing in obscenity, etc.

 

This isn't going to bankrupt me or anything, but if I had a business that used Pay Pal for a firearm related transaction and had my cash seized by them for 6 months, I would probably lose that business (which I think is what PayPal is trying to do). 

 

This is just another example of high tech companies (twitter, facebook, google, apple, paypal, abc, cbs, nbc, cnn, etc.) trying to force us to comply with their progressive ideas.

 

Again, I apologize if the SASS forum isn't the right place for stuff like this.  I'm not trying to get help with my problem, but I think it's important for these companies to be exposed. Yesterday, I emailed NRA-ILA about this, offering to help anyway I could to make sure we all are aware of what PayPal is doing.

 

 

 

 

Message From PayPal:

 

 

"A recent review of your account activity identified products or services on your website violate PayPal's Acceptable Use Policy. Specifically, Firearms are not permitted on our platform. Therefore, your account has been permanently limited.
 

Please remove all references to PayPal from your website and/or auctions. This includes not only removing PayPal as a payment option, but also the PayPal logo and PayPal shopping cart.

 

Per the User Agreement, when PayPal permanently limits an account due to a violation of the Acceptable Use Policy, any funds on your account are held for 180 days. In addition, you may be liable for any amount of damages PayPal incurs for each violation of the Acceptable Use Policy.
 
Note that should any chargebacks result in your account balance falling below zero, then you will also need to settle the amount owed to PayPal to avoid further action.
 
Customers who are permanently limited for violating the Acceptable Use Policy are not permitted to use PayPal services and are not permitted to open new or additional PayPal accounts.
 
You can find the complete PayPal Acceptable Use Policy by clicking Legal at the bottom of any PayPal page.

 

Sincerely,

PayPal"

 

 

PayPal's Prohibited Activities

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

  1. violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation.
  2. relate to transactions involving (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) cigarettes, (d) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (e) stolen goods including digital and virtual goods, (f) the promotion of hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory or the financial exploitation of a crime, (g) items that are considered obscene, (h) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (i) certain sexually oriented materials or services, (j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories
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YEP!!  Been that way for YEARS!!  I WILL NOT keep a PayPal account because of this and try to NEVER use their services!!  SQUARE, the personal credit card acceptance system that you see many vendors and small businesses use, does the same thing and interrupted my reception of payment for powder and bullets about ten years ago, when I was vending at SASS events!!  I had to threaten legal action to get my money. 

 

These two outfits in particular, changed their policies with little warning and hung a BUNCH of folks out to dry when they did it!!  I feel like it is discriminatory and should be challenged in court, but for now I'm happy to spend my money and carry on my business without these Nancys!!!

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Years ago when I signed up for pay pal the very next day, according to my credit card, I purchased items in Germany and also paid for conversion funds. That was the end of my account.

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Yup, anything related to BATFE is prohibited on PayPal. I think Venmo is the same.

 

Certain banks will not provide credit card services to FFLs even though they can not stop card holders from buying those products.

 

But PayPal is not a bank, it is a payment processor and restricts what customers can do.

 

You will get your funds in 6 months (maybe, there are cases where PayPal keeps funds for policy violations).

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If ya gotta use 'em. Use "friends and Family", so far no issues. I don't let them hold any of my money either.

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If I recall correctly, Friends and Family does not offer any protection or chargeback capabilities.  Be very careful sending money to a seller via Friends and Family.  You might as well mail them cash.  

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1 minute ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

If I recall correctly, Friends and Family does not offer any protection or chargeback capabilities.  Be very careful sending money to a seller via Friends and Family.  You might as well mail them cash.  

You're absolutely right. So far I've only used it to purchase or donate to Pards on this wire with 100% success.  Most Cowboys/girls can be trusted, at least my experience over the last 10 years. :FlagAm:

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2 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

You have gained experience.

 

Really, he just got ripped off!!

 

Some of us got warning notices when these (euphemisms redacted) decided to change their policies!  In my case, I received notification from PayPal and got away from them immediately.  Square tried to hold my money, but a nasty letter from an attorney got that quelled in short order.

 

Most new customers get caught out because they failed to read fine print in the user agreement. These (euphemism redacted) SHOULD be made to publish their discriminatory practices in the opening lines of their advertising and at the top of the page on any required application form!!

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Several years ago, ebay bought pay pal, or pay pal bought ebay, I can't remember which. Anyway, I used to do a lot of buying on ebay, using U.S. Postal money orders to pay for my winning bids. Then, ebay stated they would be only using pay pal for purchases, and stated it was for my own good, and safety.

Horse...feathers.

It was because ebay, and pay pal, had merged, and it was all about money, and profit.  Follow the money.  

I was an avid ebay user, and I quit, cold turkey. 

Now, I do believe ebay, and pay pal, have mostly gone their separate ways, and you can now use pay pal, or a credit card, to pay for your winning bids.

I have since only bought one small item from ebay, since they decided to use other means to pay, besides pay pal. 

I can live without pay pal, (and ebay for that matter), and I intend to, and they can make all the bone-head management decisions they want to, for all I care.

 I will do without, before I use pay pal.  

Yep....they ain't "our pals"....never have been, never will be...it seems. 

 

They can, and do, these anti 2nd Amendment things, because too many are still using them, and that empowers them to do as they wish. 

Use them if you wish, but you have to abide by their stupid rules. If you are good with that, then, go for it Willie!!!

 

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I learned the hard way myself with these scumbags. Between them and Discover Card I discovered in one transaction how messed up both were.

I was purchasing gun parts and linked the card to the PayPal account. PayPansies froze my account. Discover froze my card claiming "fraud" even though I called them. 

I paid off the card and cancelled it. PayPansy contacted me 11 months later with "Good news! Your account is now active!":angry::blink:

I maintain an account but never use it. They send me a zero activity statement every month. They emailed me a couple of months ago asking if I needed anything from them and queried why I never use my account. I responded with two words that start with "F" and end with "You". I haven't heard from them since.

When I get a Discover card app in the mail I stick about two ounces of paper in the envelope along with the app that has my info and toss it in the mail so they have to pay postage on it. It's cheap entertainment.

 

Sorry for your troubles, but now you know.

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Are there any "Money Senders" or Banks that are 2nd Amendment friendly or even neutral?

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5 minutes ago, Earl Brasse, SASS #3562 said:

Are there any "Money Senders" or Banks that are 2nd Amendment friendly or even neutral?

There is now Gunbroker Pay. I also use Clearent and Swipe Simple for my card processing 

Edited by John Barleycorn, SASS #76982
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2 hours ago, Earl Brasse, SASS #3562 said:

Are there any "Money Senders" or Banks that are 2nd Amendment friendly or even neutral?

 

Nope. All P2P electronic money transfer companies have in their fine print a prohibition against transactions involving firearms and ammunition.

This includes

PayPal

Venmo

Zelle

Apple Pay

Google Pay

Square Cash App

 

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Well that's not good news.

You would like to think that someone would latch onto that & start that type of business.

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Howdy,

this is a long shot....contact the NRA and see if they have any ideas on

how to handle this.

If a credit card is involved there may be a slim chance they might help.

Ebay is weird in that they allow many gun related items but not others.

I would guess they have several million dollars worth of gun parts and 

accessories on ebay this second.

Maybe finding a pro 2a lawyer might be good??

Best

CR

 

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