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Titegroup and 12G load


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Trying to recreate a Winchester AA Low Recoil load using Titegroup and 7/8oz of shot. If you are using Titegroup what is your recipe?

 

Thanks in advance! Barkeep

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Titewad is the Hodgdon powder for that. or even Clays.   Titegroup is strongly considered a pistol powder only by Hodgdon, and has almost no published shotgun data.  Shotgun data is the hardest to invent a load for when you don't have a lot to compare to.

 

If you want a Clays load, then in Win AA hulls, try 15 grains Clays, the Claybuster CB0178 wad, most any primer, 7/8 ounce shot.   I've used that before for a light 12 gauge load in Cowboy.

 

good luck, GJ

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16 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Titewad is the Hodgdon powder for that. or even Clays.   Titegroup is strongly considered a pistol powder only by Hodgdon, and has almost no published shotgun data.  Shotgun data is the hardest to invent a load for when you don't have a lot to compare to.

 

If you want a Clays load, then in Win AA hulls, try 15 grains Clays, the Claybuster CB0178 wad, most any primer, 7/8 ounce shot.   I've used that before for a light 12 gauge load in Cowboy.

 

good luck, GJ

+ 1000 on the Clays . I use 17 grs with 1 oz of shot. Still a light load.

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3/4 ounce shot

claybuster 3/4 ounce wad

14.4 grain Clays or Clay Dot

This the lightest reliable load for DW's SKB to reset the inertial trigger.

 

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Barkeep, you can find the Hodgdon shotgun load data here.  In looking I found the only Titegroup shotgun load data was for 1 oz and 1 1/8 oz.  The lightest load I found there was for 1 oz.  16.0 grains of Titegroup results in a velocity of 1180 fps. 

 

Kajun

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10 hours ago, Krazy Kajun said:

Barkeep, you can find the Hodgdon shotgun load data here.  In looking I found the only Titegroup shotgun load data was for 1 oz and 1 1/8 oz.  The lightest load I found there was for 1 oz.  16.0 grains of Titegroup results in a velocity of 1180 fps. 

 

Kajun

Thanks Kajun. I am trying to help out a new shotgun loader with limited access to powder and find something that would work. The published data was a little stouter than we were looking for. I would much rather switch him to Clays or Red Dot where I know recipe's that work, but alas everything is hard to find these days.

         

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I have had excellent luck with 700X in low recoil shotshells.  Seems to be easier to find as it is not as popular as other powders.

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You can't always get everything you want in a hoarding/panic situation as we have now.  Go with what works, and they can find a cream puff load later.

 

Good luck, GJ

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On 2/10/2021 at 4:22 PM, Barkeep Casey said:

Trying to recreate a Winchester AA Low Recoil load using Titegroup and 7/8oz of shot. If you are using Titegroup what is your recipe?

Thanks in advance! Barkeep

Wal-Mart.  Don't spread that around too much, we don't need a "run" on what limited supplies they seem to have.  I'm real leary of playing with shotshell loads that are not published.  And I have yet to find one that equals the 980fps on the AA LN/LR box.  'Sides, I can't buy shot cheap enough to get the cost to reload below the purchase price.  I save my shot for my BP rounds.  

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1 hour ago, Griff said:

Wal-Mart.  Don't spread that around too much, we don't need a "run" on what limited supplies they seem to have.  I'm real leary of playing with shotshell loads that are not published.  And I have yet to find one that equals the 980fps on the AA LN/LR box.  'Sides, I can't buy shot cheap enough to get the cost to reload below the purchase price.  I save my shot for my BP rounds.  

 

Griff. The below load is lighter than the AA LN-LR shells yet it will still knockdown targets as long as you do your part.

 

STS or Gun Club hull,

Claybuster CB0175-12

3/4 oz of shot

13.2 grains of 700X

The important part is the primer you use.

Federal primers are the hottest and the felt recoil is a little more than a AA LN-LR

Winchester primers are a little less strong and give about the same felt recoil as a AA LN-LR

Remington 209 primers are the lightest so the felt recoil is less than a AA LN-LR

 

You can see how I worked up the load at the link below. I took the 1050 fps Powder charge for the Federal primer and substituted the Remington primer.

 

21 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Load data from Claybuster using their CB0175-12 wad.

 

Less felt recoil than the Winchester LNLR

 

By using only 3/4 oz of shot vice an ounce I get 21 boxes of shells per bag of shot vice 15 and a half.

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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Well guys this is a lot of info shot load is actually between 7/8oz shot and 1 oz 404.4 grains ((0.92352) of an ounce) of shot that is as low as my current shot drop will go until my new drop gets here from Dillon then I can drop it on down to 7/8. I currently have 19 test rounds using 13.5 grains of titegroup and AA hulls with aa12l wads or something like that. If I have done the math correctly it should be right at 1000 fps but I don't have a chronograph to test that so if it'll work on the knock downs I'll let you know. Hopefully I'll get to test the shot on some knockdowns this weekend. Test guns will be 18 inch SKB, 20 inch SKB, 22 inch SKB and a Winchester 1897 pump 20 or 22 inch barrel. wish me luck.

 

20210208_215954.jpg

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On 2/10/2021 at 6:23 PM, wyliefoxEsquire said:

3/4 ounce shot

claybuster 3/4 ounce wad

14.4 grain Clays or Clay Dot

This the lightest reliable load for DW's SKB to reset the inertial trigger.

 

im using one pretty close to this and agree - i used red dot and clays with just a little higher powder charge , 

 

edit to add that this is a real low pressure charge that is good in older shotguns , i have a couple over 100 years old i never worry when using this 

Edited by watab kid
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1 hour ago, watab kid said:

im using one pretty close to this and agree - i used red dot and clays with just a little higher powder charge , 

 

edit to add that this is a real low pressure charge that is good in older shotguns , i have a couple over 100 years old i never worry when using this 

none of my SKB's or pump use inertia all manual triggers

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Rainmaker, I have a container of Clean Shot that I would like to load shotgun shells with using your recipe. I checked the MEC bushing chart and did not find Clean Shot listed. Could you furnish me the number of the MEC bushing that will drop 13.0 grains of Clean Shot? 

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1 hour ago, Sandhills Slim, SASS #22998 said:

Rainmaker, I have a container of Clean Shot that I would like to load shotgun shells with using your recipe. I checked the MEC bushing chart and did not find Clean Shot listed. Could you furnish me the number of the MEC bushing that will drop 13.0 grains of Clean Shot? 

I would guess a 24 or 25, but don't know the powder enough to be certain.

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1 hour ago, Sandhills Slim, SASS #22998 said:

Rainmaker, I have a container of Clean Shot that I would like to load shotgun shells with using your recipe. I checked the MEC bushing chart and did not find Clean Shot listed. Could you furnish me the number of the MEC bushing that will drop 13.0 grains of Clean Shot? 

Haha, I use the smallest bushing on my Lee Load All and still have to skim a bit off the top for 13.0 gr. The smallest bushing drops right at 16.0 gr of Clean Shot, which is fine for my load in the Slide gun but my girl likes em a little lighter so I hand-weigh her charges. Sorry. If anyone has ideas for temporarily limiting that bushing to less than 16 gr, I'm all ears. Don't have a MEC, sorry

Edited by The Rainmaker, SASS #11631
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1 minute ago, Barkeep Casey said:

I would guess a 24 or 25, but don't know the powder enough to be certain.

#18 drops just under ~15.0 grains of Clean Shot for me.

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Take some stiff card stock and cut it so that it is the same width as the bushing. Curl it up and use it to line the inside of the bushing. The trick is to have it springy enough that it pushes out against the bushing with no gaps. Vary the number of layers till you get the charge you want. 

 

If it doesn't want to stay in place use a little rubber cement.

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54 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Take some stiff card stock and cut it so that it is the same width as the bushing. Curl it up and use it to line the inside of the bushing. The trick is to have it springy enough that it pushes out against the bushing with no gaps. Vary the number of layers till you get the charge you want. 

 

If it doesn't want to stay in place use a little rubber cement.

I'll give it a run.

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I'm running 17.5 Titewad and don't have data for Titegroup. I do have 3/4 pound or so of Red Dot (loaded maybe 100-200 light .38spl loads from the pound) I can let go. Y'all would have to come get it or come out for workday on the 20th. $20 sound good?

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58 minutes ago, Ron "Ironhead" Smith said:

I'm running 17.5 Titewad and don't have data for Titegroup. I do have 3/4 pound or so of Red Dot (loaded maybe 100-200 light .38spl loads from the pound) I can let go. Y'all would have to come get it or come out for workday on the 20th. $20 sound good?

I think Yohan will take you up on that! Thanks Ironhead, I will get him in touch with you.

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Iron head I'll take it see you at NAR's next match :-) I did get a couple of pounds titewad from pistolero last match not so much for me but for a new shooter as in brand new waiting for him to shoot his first match. :-) 

Edited by Yohan
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3 hours ago, Barkeep Casey said:

I think Yohan will take you up on that! Thanks Ironhead, I will get him in touch with you.

 

2 hours ago, Yohan said:

Iron head I'll take it see you at NAR's next match :-) I did get a couple of pounds titewad from pistolero last match not so much for me but for a new shooter as in brand new waiting for him to shoot his first match. :-) 


You got it. I'll put your name on it.

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3 hours ago, Ron "Ironhead" Smith said:

 


You got it. I'll put your name on it.

Thank you Sir.

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On 2/11/2021 at 9:09 PM, Yohan said:

none of my SKB's or pump use inertia all manual triggers

none of mine either - i dont worry of resetting an inertial as ill never shoot one 

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For a consistent soft load consider using Alliant e3 instead of Clays. You can use Clays load info for e3. With e3 your loads will not be pressure or temperature sensitive, very consistent. Titegroup might use a touch more. I seem to recall that Federal primers should be avoided. 

I loaded up, and chrono'd, loads for shooters that had medical issues. I had ⅞oz loads going 950fps using 12.5 -13 gr of e3. That is a Power Facter of 363 vs 525 for a common

 1oz 1200fps trap load. 

I use 1⅛ and 13-14 grains of e3 in a SxS regularly. 

Edited by meesterpaul
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On 2/11/2021 at 10:09 PM, Yohan said:

none of my SKB's or pump use inertia all manual triggers

Ah good!  Manual vs inertia… these real light ones might challenge a inertia gun and perhaps some knockdowns. Might need to keep something more potent around for those. 

Edited by meesterpaul
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1 minute ago, meesterpaul said:

I bet you're right there. 

Still waiting to see will post my findings :-)

 

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On 2/13/2021 at 11:15 PM, Yohan said:

Still waiting to see will post my findings :-)

 

Ok so yesterday I took both SKB side by side and Winchester 97 out and shot them hard to tell the difference in the factory  7/8 shot 980 fps Winchester AA and the loads I created. I am going to use them in a local match this weekend as they seemed just as good not only did I reload red AA hulls but the Grey ones as well as Remington green hulls all worked equally as well I am assuming it is because all are loaded identical using calipers and scale so close it doesn't warrant discussion.

This is using TITEGROUP Powder 13.5 grains, 404.4 grains of shot and the white waa12l wads I am also using the Noble European Primer 209/688 not the 686 as they are colder than the 209/688. If these fall flat this weekend well I will report that as well. Just to make sure these would shoot in the cold left the ammo out in the car for a couple of days as stated no issues I could see. Thanks everyone who helped out with your advice.

 

Edited by Yohan
wrong name used
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Great news Yohan. I am glad you were able to get this worked out.

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