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Moving to Frontier Cartridge advice


Make do

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I want to head toward FC gunfighter but I am having some problems with loading - I am using APP powder and a RCBS 90 32 cal bullet in a 32 magnum case. My revolvers are two Ruger Single Sixes. I am having two problems - 1. after the first cylinder the shells wont go in all the way and jam - I have tried just a brush but nothing short of taking the cylinder out and brushing with water/solvent  will restore fit (cartridge head sticks a smidge out). Should I switch to 32 long cases? Which brings up problem 2 - the load doesn't seem to produce a lot of smoke. and the 32 long would be even less powder. Ideas - I would like to stay with the 32's or I may have to sell my ROA to get another 38/40 to match the one I have. Thanks  

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My wife shoots single sixes with 32h&r mag cases.  Bullet is a 125gr 32-20.

 

Cases full to about 3/16 shy of top with 3F for about a 1/8-3/16" compression.  Lots of smoke, light recoil (she shoots Duelist) and it will take down knock downs.

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My daughter & granddaughter have both shot FC with .32H&R Single Sixes with 100 gr bullets & Pinnacle . No problems, plenty of smoke.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Chert Rock Chuck said:

Maybe real powder would be a better option...?

No ill intent, just speculation that real black would solve the lack of smoke issue.

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5 minutes ago, Chert Rock Chuck said:

No ill intent, just speculation that real black would solve the lack of smoke issue.

In reality, APP smokes a lot more than real black powder.  In a 32 H&R mag, to the brim, I seem to recall it's about 0.8cc in volume.  SASS spec is for smoke equivalent to 1.0cc in a 38 with a 158gr bullet (I may be off on the bullet weight, but it's in the SASS handbooks somewhere).

 

To reliably get that in a 32, you really need a sub, especially with a light bullet.  And don't forget a good crimp!  At least that is our experience but, obviously, atmospheric conditions will change the results considerably!

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Are you using coated bulletts?

May need to resize them?

Have someone clean/polish your chamber.

Just spoke to Lassiter on this very issue.

1) take off a cylinder

2) check each chamber , making sure empty brass seats properly.

3) put your bullett only in each chamber, bullett should go to the bottom and come out with a slight drag.

If they don't fit...chambers need cleaned/polished.

If the do, the bullett or length of your rounds are the problem.

 

We think our coated bulletts were most likely sized, then coated...and needing to be resized.

 

Will let you know what I find.

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I use cast RCBS mold cowboy 90 grain - I size them to .311 - I will try going down a bit because it takes more than a gentle push to get them to exit the cylinder. Thanks

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As a suggestion.  Ruger is famous or Infamous for undersize cylinder throats.  I would suggest you should check the cylinder throats and have them reamed to correct diameter.  Soonest.  Running APP should be no problem at all.  You SHOULD be shooting 3f.

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2 hours ago, Make do said:

I want to head toward FC gunfighter but I am having some problems with loading - I am using APP powder and a RCBS 90 32 cal bullet in a 32 magnum case. My revolvers are two Ruger Single Sixes. I am having two problems - 1. after the first cylinder the shells wont go in all the way and jam - I have tried just a brush but nothing short of taking the cylinder out and brushing with water/solvent  will restore fit (cartridge head sticks a smidge out). Should I switch to 32 long cases? Which brings up problem 2 - the load doesn't seem to produce a lot of smoke. and the 32 long would be even less powder. Ideas - I would like to stay with the 32's or I may have to sell my ROA to get another 38/40 to match the one I have. Thanks  

Captain Baylor and I tested 32 Longs using my wife's firearms.  They didn't make the smoke standard.  APP and 32 H&R mag cases and 100 grain bullets made the smoke standard.  Keep loading APP for maximum smoke.  BTW, her knockdown loads are 115 grain bullets and Triple Seven.

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1 hour ago, Make do said:

I use cast RCBS mold cowboy 90 grain - I size them to .311 - I will try going down a bit because it takes more than a gentle push to get them to exit the cylinder. Thanks

Two bullets we use are .359 (.38 125gr)

And one is .357

The .357 almost falls in.

I believe I am still gonna have my best pal polish the chambers some.

 

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if you shoot 38 special lead bullets in a .357 magnum chamber you can get lead buildup in the area in front of the brass that might need to be cleaned out before you switch back to .357 magnum cases.  using cases that have a longer trim length close to the chamber cut of the cylinder might reduce the fouling in that area.  Basicially make it so there's no shelf to shave off lead when you fire.  

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11 minutes ago, El CupAJoe said:

if you shoot 38 special lead bullets in a .357 magnum chamber you can get lead buildup in the area in front of the brass that might need to be cleaned out before you switch back to .357 magnum cases.  using cases that have a longer trim length close to the chamber cut of the cylinder might reduce the fouling in that area.  Basicially make it so there's no shelf to shave off lead when you fire.  

Spot on. The prior owner shot .38 shorts.

It was a chore getting them cleaned!:rolleyes:

They will be 100% once polished chambers are done!

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As a person who has fired over 15,000 rounds of APP loaded in 38 special cases that have been fired from pistols and rifles chambered in .357 magnum as well as thousands of smokeless 38 special in 357 chambers; here is my experience.

 

Shooting SMOKELESS loads out of 38 special brass in 357 chambers will cause a build up of crud in the chamber. You'll never notice it till you try to chamber a 357. At which point you'll discover that it binds and will not seat.

 

Shooting real BP or APP out of 38 specials in .357 chambers will NOT cause a build up. I routinely switch between 38 specials loaded with APP and 357s loaded with T7 or real BP and have never once had an issue due to crud building up in the chamber.

 

If you have a build up in the chamber there are three ways to remove it.

 

1. Solvent, a bronze chamber brush, and a case with a slightly flared case mouth. This is by far the most work.

 

2. Buy one of the special reamers designed to specifically to remove this crud. Easy but the reamers cost and are not available for every cartridge.

 

3. Shoot a match with your cases loaded with APP. Cleans the chambers every time and works on any cartridge.

 

YMMV

 

 

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1 minute ago, Sedalia Dave said:

As a person who has fired over 15,000 rounds of APP loaded in 38 special cases that have been fired from pistols and rifles chambered in .357 magnum as well as thousands of smokeless 38 special in 357 chambers; here is my experience.

 

Shooting SMOKELESS loads out of 38 special brass in 357 chambers will cause a build up of crud in the chamber. You'll never notice it till you try to chamber a 357. At which point you'll discover that it binds and will not seat.

 

Shooting real BP or APP out of 38 specials in .357 chambers will NOT cause a build up. I routinely switch between 38 specials loaded with APP and 357s loaded with T7 or real BP and have never once had an issue due to crud building up in the chamber.

 

If you have a build up in the chamber there are three ways to remove it.

 

1. Solvent, a bronze chamber brush, and a case with a slightly flared case mouth. This is by far the most work.

 

2. Buy one of the special reamers designed to specifically to remove this crud. Easy but the reamers cost and are not available for every cartridge.

 

3. Shoot a match with your cases loaded with APP. Cleans the chambers every time and works on any cartridge.

 

YMMV

 

 

Personally shoot APP...

Our rounds would not chamber when I tried them.

After home, and cleaning...and doing the above brass check/bullet check...

The one bullet was the culprit.

Hubby believes resizing will most likely solve that issue.

But, as said...I will be set after polishing those chambers!!!

And Capt. Baylor told me no one will ever question my smoke factor!!!:D

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My wife shoots the P jrs. and we both shoot 92s. Because I have to load 38 specials long for reliable feeding in our 92s, we discovered issues loading he P jrs. The case would lack about 1/2 the thickness of the rim from going all the way into the chamber. You could push it in with a piece of deer horn but having to fight her pistls at the loading table was not my wife's idea of fun. I did a detailed examination and discovered that in her pistols some of the cylinder throats were really tight. This was causing issues seating the cartridges as the bullet would bind in the cylinder throat.

 

To correct the problem I loaded a dummy cartridge 0.010 longer than my normal 38 specials and then reamed the chamber throats till the round would drop into each chamber correctly. Since then she hasn't had any issues. 

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1 minute ago, Sedalia Dave said:

My wife shoots the P jrs. and we both shoot 92s. Because I have to load 38 specials long for reliable feeding in our 92s, we discovered issues loading he P jrs. The case would lack about 1/2 the thickness of the rim from going all the way into the chamber. You could push it in with a piece of deer horn but having to fight her pistls at the loading table was not my wife's idea of fun. I did a detailed examination and discovered that in her pistols some of the cylinder throats were really tight. This was causing issues seating the cartridges as the bullet would bind in the cylinder throat.

 

To correct the problem I loaded a dummy cartridge 0.010 longer than my normal 38 specials and then reamed the chamber throats till the round would drop into each chamber correctly. Since then she hasn't had any issues. 

Great advice!

I'm blessed to have Boggus Deal a part of my extended family...he has the tool to get 'er done!

I think these are gonna fit me much better than my Vaqueros, and NM Vaqueros...them are getting mighty heavy!

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One thing to consider is if you're using a round nose bullet switch to a truncated cone. My wife shot 32s using H&R Mag brass and the round nose would not go all of the way into the chamber. We switched to 90 gr TC bullets and a full case of APP and had no problem fitting into the cylinders and made plenty of smoke.

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I have a truncated cone mold 86g but it is gas check - I have heard you can shoot them just fine without the gas check - guess I will give it a try.

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I am no gun smith, but when I was having a similar problem a gun smith told me to ream the chambers.  Brownells' sells the tool, but don't get carried away.

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13 hours ago, Make do said:

I have a truncated cone mold 86g but it is gas check - I have heard you can shoot them just fine without the gas check - guess I will give it a try.

I would imagine you would be fine shooting without the gas check, it's similar to shooting a heeled bullet with Black Powder.  if you were shooting smokeless, I'd recommend powder coating the bullets, but I don't think that's required or recommended with APP.

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5 hours ago, El CupAJoe said:

I would imagine you would be fine shooting without the gas check, it's similar to shooting a heeled bullet with Black Powder.  if you were shooting smokeless, I'd recommend powder coating the bullets, but I don't think that's required or recommended with APP.

Baylor has shot APP with coated bulletts for years, and no issues.

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Try a Lee Factory Crimp die? Also, APP with a polymer coated or lubed Bullet is fine! 
 

Hugs!

Scarlett

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