Damascus -Barreled Shotguns

[Bailey Creek,5759]

Recieved a e-mail from Guns And Ammo Magazine today .

There is a article about shooting Smokless Shotgunn shells in Damascus Shotguns .

Good article. 

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

BTW My dad didn't have many guns. However, he had a Damascus DB SG he said was owned by Jimmy Doolittle. My brother has it. I got Pa's Colt pistols.

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

I inherited an old English made 10-gauge Bonehill double from an uncle that he got from one his uncle.  It was in very bad shape.   Had it refinished but never fired it.  Too far off face.   My nephew saw it, loved it, and so I gave it to him with the instructions that someday he was to give the Bonehill to one of his nephews.

 

Wisdom says, only shoot Black Powder rounds in a sound Damascus barreled shotguns.

[Moustache Les]

At this stage, I would say there is no such thing as a sound Damascus barreled gun.  100 year old lead solder keeping the barrels from unwinding 4" in front of your face.....not this kid.

[J-BAR #18287]

2 hours ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

 

Wisdom says, only shoot Black Powder rounds in a sound Damascus barreled shotguns.

A few shots at quail, as long as the bores are not damaged, OK.  Shooting a 12 round CAS stage and heating those barrels up so hot you can’t hold them?  Madness.

[Linn Keller, SASS 27332, BOLD 103]

An old fellow from Dayton bought a cottage downhill from us.
While digging around under the house -- he'd had the foundation raised about ten feet to keep the cottage out of floodwaters -- he found a double barrel Damascus.
Stock was broke.
He packed it up the hill to dear old Dad and offered to sell it to him.

When he went back down hill, he was richer by fifteen dollars, and chuckling that he'd just skinned a poor dumb hillbilly out of his eye teeth.

Dear old Dad was richer by a damascus barrel twelve-bore with an easily repaired stock, and he was congratulating himself for skinning that damned flatland Yankee out of his eye teeth.

Each one was so completely convinced he'd cheated the other guy seven ways from Sunday, each was honestly ashamed to look the other in the eye.

It was a good trade.

The stock dried out on top of our coal furnace for a few months; mud and debris having long been toothbrushed from the splintered wrist, yellow wood glue was applied, the broken pieces mated, wiggled, clamped: the repair was stronger than the original wood, which is often the case, when repair is properly done.
The mechanism was detail stripped, cleaned, examined, found to be sound and almost unworn.

The barrels, in spite of their immersion in floodwaters of the Sulfur Creek who knows how many times, were only lightly pitted inside, and not at all outside:  once the stock was sound, the receiver reassembled and ready, dear old Dad readied two strings -- one for each trigger -- dunked two deer slugs in the old gun, shoved the butt in an old tire, pointed it at the hillside and crawled behind a big rock.

(Perry County has plenty of rocks big enough to hide behind so that wasn't much of a task, even for a full grown man, which he was)

He pulled one string -- BANG -- he pulled the other string -- BANG -- he went and took a look.

The gun was in one piece; no sign of bulge, crack, split or problem.

Having passed his Hillbilly Redneck Proof Loading, he determined it would be suitable for black powder loads, and that's all he fed it from that day forward -- assembled in brass hulls, with about the same choke as a length of culvert, he was deadly on grouse with it.

 

 

[Chantry]

There is a lot of misinformation regarding Damascus barrels and smokeless powder.  For those of you don't want to take my word for it, read the following link:

https://www.midwayusa.com/larrys-short-stories/damascus-barrels-rumors-and-facts/183

 

 

 

I shoot skeet using a Damascus barreled 12 g British hammered shotgun that was made somewhere between 1867-1875 based on Birmingham proof marks and the patent date for the rebounding hammers.  It was re-chambered from 2 1/2" shells to 2 3/4" in 2000 and re-proofed for smokeless ammo at the Birmingham proof house in England, I've fired 1000's of factory ammo through it with no problems.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chantry]

24 minutes ago, Moustache Les said:

At this stage, I would say there is no such thing as a sound Damascus barreled gun.  100 year old lead solder keeping the barrels from unwinding 4" in front of your face.....not this kid.

 

Damascus barrels were NOT held together with lead solder, they were hammer forged:  http://www.castlegunmakers.co.uk/blog/2014/04/28/damascus-barreled-shotguns/

[Tom Bullweed]

If I were to own and shoot a Damascus-barrel scattergun it would have a Briley barrel sleeve, reducing the gauge and providing a sound liner.

I was fortunate to find a Remington 1878 Lifter Grade 1 Fluid steel barrel gun when I had that itch.

[Moustache Les]

33 minutes ago, Chantry said:

 

Damascus barrels were NOT held together with lead solder, they were hammer forged:  http://www.castlegunmakers.co.uk/blog/2014/04/28/damascus-barreled-shotguns/

Yup, the better ones were.

[J-BAR #18287]

1 hour ago, Chantry said:

 

Damascus barrels were NOT held together with lead solder, they were hammer forged:  http://www.castlegunmakers.co.uk/blog/2014/04/28/damascus-barreled-shotguns/

The solder holds the barrels to the rib.   You pays your money and you takes your chance.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

2 hours ago, Linn Keller, SASS 27332, BOLD 103 said:

An old fellow from Dayton bought a cottage downhill from us.
While digging around under the house -- he'd had the foundation raised about ten feet to keep the cottage out of floodwaters -- he found a double barrel Damascus.
Stock was broke.
He packed it up the hill to dear old Dad and offered to sell it to him.

When he went back down hill, he was richer by fifteen dollars, and chuckling that he'd just skinned a poor dumb hillbilly out of his eye teeth.

Dear old Dad was richer by a damascus barrel twelve-bore with an easily repaired stock, and he was congratulating himself for skinning that damned flatland Yankee out of his eye teeth.

Each one was so completely convinced he'd cheated the other guy seven ways from Sunday, each was honestly ashamed to look the other in the eye.

It was a good trade.

The stock dried out on top of our coal furnace for a few months; mud and debris having long been toothbrushed from the splintered wrist, yellow wood glue was applied, the broken pieces mated, wiggled, clamped: the repair was stronger than the original wood, which is often the case, when repair is properly done.
The mechanism was detail stripped, cleaned, examined, found to be sound and almost unworn.

The barrels, in spite of their immersion in floodwaters of the Sulfur Creek who knows how many times, were only lightly pitted inside, and not at all outside:  once the stock was sound, the receiver reassembled and ready, dear old Dad readied two strings -- one for each trigger -- dunked two deer slugs in the old gun, shoved the butt in an old tire, pointed it at the hillside and crawled behind a big rock.

(Perry County has plenty of rocks big enough to hide behind so that wasn't much of a task, even for a full grown man, which he was)

He pulled one string -- BANG -- he pulled the other string -- BANG -- he went and took a look.

The gun was in one piece; no sign of bulge, crack, split or problem.

Having passed his Hillbilly Redneck Proof Loading, he determined it would be suitable for black powder loads, and that's all he fed it from that day forward -- assembled in brass hulls, with about the same choke as a length of culvert, he was deadly on grouse with it.

 

 

My dad said a good deal is when both parties think they stuck it to the other guy.

[Trailrider #896]

Damascus or twist barrels are NOT soldered at the boundaries of the strips that form the barrel.  The strips are forge-welded as the strips are wrapped sprially around a mandrel.  A well-made barrel of this type was pretty strong WHEN IT WAS MADE.  The problem nowadays is the potential for intergrannular corrosion around the weld boundaries.  There is no way to determine if this has taken place, even with NDT techniques as the seams will show up regardless.  My recommendation to those who have such guns is NOT to shoot them as is.  The suggestion about lining the barrels is an excellent one, albeit you do have to reduce the gage (inside diameter) of the gun.  My Dad brought back some long guns from WWII.  These had fluid steel barrels, but short chambers, and the walls were pretty thin...too thin, IMHO, to risk lengthening the chambers.  What I did was buy Savage Four-Tenner .410 bore inserts which would take .410 x 3" shells.  Unfortunately, the Savage inserts are no longer made, but you might be able to find some on the internet.  

But, my recommendation remains the same...DON'T SHOOT TWIST STEEL BARREL GUNS, BP OR SMOKELESS!

Stay well and safe, Pards!

[Bailey Creek,5759]

The auther on the article recomended 2 Companies .

RST Paper Lite 2 1/2 inch loads with 1 ounce of #7 shot advertised at 1,175 feet per second.

Polywad Vintage 2 1/2 inch 24 grams 7/8 ounce load with 7 1/2 shot .

 

[Waxahachie Kid #17017 L]

For what it's worth...

 

Years ago, I was told, by someone, that I thought knew what he was talking about, that if I had a shotgun with Damascus barrels...first get a competent gunsmith to check it out, and see if it is in good enough condition to shoot. Then he said to use only black-powder in making up your shells, since that was really the era they were mostly manufactured in...being that smokeless powers came along later on. He said not to crimp the shotgun shell, like a modern shell is crimped (folded crimp). He said to use a rolled crimp on the shotgun shell, and put a thin enough piece of paper over it, to hold the shot in place. He used a tiny square of target paper, that he folded over one time, to fit. He said there is hardly any resistance that way, when the shell is fired, and that reduces some pressure, that a folded crimp might have. He even said, way back in the day, he used sodium silicate, or "water glass", on the ends of the rolled crimp, in addition to the piece of paper, to ensure the paper, and the shot, stayed put. 

He also told me to use some common sense on the black powder charge I put in the shell. He used 2F only, and never 3F, when he loaded up. I cannot remember exactly, but he said he never used shot larger than number 4's....mostly 6's and 7 1/2's, and 8's. 

 

Disclaimer:

I do not own a Damascus barreled shotgun...so I have no, zero, nada, zip, personal experience with them. I am just relaying what an old-timer, that I knew back in the 1950's, told me, and it stayed with me, all these years. He was in his late 80's, early 90's, back in the 1950's, so I just figure he had had some experience along those lines. 

 

W.K.