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Any experience shooting .356" slugs in .38 & .357?


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I'm having trouble finding any round nose bullets for a Pard's .38/.357 SASS six-gun and rifle.

They haven't found any bullet shape that will feed in their rifle other than the round nose.

They have tried SWC, truncated, FP. Those just do not feed.

 

The only round nose slugs I can find are the 9 mm designed bullets.

If we load these up, do you suspect that they will have push-back problems or soot problems or anything else

bad?

 

EDIT!!!!  SORRY, I FORGOT TO TYPE THAT HAVE TO BE 125 G OR LESS IN WEIGHT.

 

Much obliged.

Edited by Mustang Gregg
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Will have trouble seating them as the inside case diameter will be too large and the bullets will drop too far into the case. BTDT

 

Even at SASS velocities they will also likely cause leading issues due to gas cutting.  

 

Sent you a PM with a bullet supplier that has coated 125 gr RNFP 38s in stock.

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Muchas gracias, Sedalia.

I'll check them out.

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If you're into casting, I can send you a couple Lee TL358-158-2R, RN's to see if they cycle.  I know the internet will tell you not to put a RN in a tube mag due to potential detonation concerns... with low recoiling CAS rounds, I don't think this is a concern unless you slam the butt of the stock down hard on something... but I probably wouldn't use RN's if I had any other option.  If you are using lead bullets, you can powder coat them a few times to build up the diameter to the bullet if that's all you got.  

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Also, have you tried both magnum and special brass?  one of your other bullet types may work if you switch case length.

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@El CupAJoe beat me to it. I used that mould in a Rossi 92. It was the only one that would work with .38 Special brass. And it ran great in .357 brass.

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1 hour ago, Mustang Gregg said:

I'm having trouble finding any round nose bullets for a Pard's .38/.357 SASS six-gun and rifle.

They haven't found any bullet shape that will feed in their rifle other than the round nose.

They have tried SWC, truncated, FP. Those just do not feed.

 

The only round nose slugs I can find are the 9 mm designed bullets.

If we load these up, do you suspect that they will have push-back problems or soot problems or anything else

bad?

 

Much obliged.

 

I think I have a box of .358 round nose 158gr.  I'll check in the workshop later today.

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if you are into casting and want to try out a certain bullet shape before you invest in a mold, the Reloader's Network has a cast bullet exchange group for just this reason, you can post on there what you want to try out and people that have that mold will send you some samples.  

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Considering Ruger makes a Blackhawk convertible in 9mm/357, I doubt .001 inch diameter is going to make much difference. Load a few up and try them. I'd be willing to bet they shoot fine. 

 

I use .358 in my 38 S&W pocket pistol that is supposed to be .361 and they shoot fine, even in our long range pocket pistol side match. 

.

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1 hour ago, El CupAJoe said:

I know the internet will tell you not to put a RN in a tube mag due to potential detonation concerns... with low recoiling CAS rounds, I don't think this is a concern unless you slam the butt of the stock down hard on something... but I probably wouldn't use RN's if I had any other option. 

I've never understood the fear of using RN bullets, other than we're using pistol primers, which are probably a little thinner metal than rifle primers. Jeez, a lot of us grew up shooting round nose .30-30, .30 Remington, .35 Remington, and others, in lever guns, and nobody's calling any of us "One-eyed Lefty" today.

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I regularly use 9mm sized bullets in my Ruger 357's  125's and 105's consistently will group within 2" at 25 yards with both pistols and Rifle. 

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Run .356 in my old Navy Arms 73  all the time.     Has tight bore that doesnt like 358        GW

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1 hour ago, twelve mile REB said:

I regularly use 9mm sized bullets in my Ruger 357's  125's and 105's consistently will group within 2" at 25 yards with both pistols and Rifle. 

 

37 minutes ago, G W Wade said:

Run .356 in my old Navy Arms 73  all the time.     Has tight bore that doesnt like 358        GW

 

How are you keeping the bullet from falling into the case?  A bullet vendor shipped me some 9mm sized bullets one time by accident. Discovered it when they dropped too far into the case.

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24 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

 

How are you keeping the bullet from falling into the case?  A bullet vendor shipped me some 9mm sized bullets one time by accident. Discovered it when they dropped too far into the case.

After they are sized , I still have to expand the mouth to et the bullet in.      I do run taper crimp on ammo        GW

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I used to give 9 mm TC bullets to a pard because they were the only ones that would feed in his POS 66. They loaded fine but really leaded up the barrel.

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1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

 

How are you keeping the bullet from falling into the case?  A bullet vendor shipped me some 9mm sized bullets one time by accident. Discovered it when they dropped too far into the case.

 

I don't bell my 38 spec. cases excessively and haven't had a problem with bullets falling into the case.  So it could be a combination of several things, my dillon sizing die, that I am careful about only belling enough to get the bullet started and I use two station seating.  I use a seating die in the powder check station that only seats past the bevel base and another seating die that finishes the seat.  I also use the Dillon powder failsafe and a motor out of a dildo to vibrate the powder measure of the last 100k loaded 0 squibs 2  identifiable lite loads.  I dont shoot many 9mm bullets but with the ones I have there has been no increase in leading that I could detect.  a system not for everyone but seems to work for me.  

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6 hours ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

One-eyed Lefty

Is that alias taken?

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M. Gregg,

 

9mm is nominally .355.  To shoot well in a 355 bore, you'd want your bullets cast/sized a thou over, or 356.  Nominal diameter for 38/357 is .357 (Who'd thunk).  To shoot well, you'd want bullets cast/sized 358.  Ruger, in their infinite wisdom is want to bore the Cylinder Throats as small as .354 or .353.  While that results in slightly higher felt recoil, and slightly wonky accuracy, they work sorta OK.  The Ruger does work better once the throats are corrected.  Where was I??  Oh, I remember, A .356 bullet in a .357 bore may give you a little leading.  It won't be "bullseye" accurate but at 7 - 10 yards you won't notice that.  Same same the result with the Rifle.

 

I do find it curious however, that none of the most treasured Bullet shapes in the industry, won't feed in a particular rifle.  I do well understand the failure to feed Semi Wad-Cutter.  Lever rifles have never liked the shoulder on a SWC.  The other bullets failure to feed, however puzzles me.  What kind of rifle is it?? And what has been done to it??

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On 2/6/2021 at 1:47 PM, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

M. Gregg,

 

9mm is nominally .355.  To shoot well in a 355 bore, you'd want your bullets cast/sized a thou over, or 356.  Nominal diameter for 38/357 is .357 (Who'd thunk).  To shoot well, you'd want bullets cast/sized 358.  Ruger, in their infinite wisdom is want to bore the Cylinder Throats as small as .354 or .353.  While that results in slightly higher felt recoil, and slightly wonky accuracy, they work sorta OK.  The Ruger does work better once the throats are corrected.  Where was I??  Oh, I remember, A .356 bullet in a .357 bore may give you a little leading.  It won't be "bullseye" accurate but at 7 - 10 yards you won't notice that.  Same same the result with the Rifle.

 

I do find it curious however, that none of the most treasured Bullet shapes in the industry, won't feed in a particular rifle.  I do well understand the failure to feed Semi Wad-Cutter.  Lever rifles have never liked the shoulder on a SWC.  The other bullets failure to feed, however puzzles me.  What kind of rifle is it?? And what has been done to it??

They're not for me.  It's for a friend who is very set on RN bullets in her rifle.  She said the TNC bullets won't work.  

Thanks, Pard.

 

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She said the TC bullets won't work

 

TC is the standard abbreviation for a Truncated Cone bullet.

 

That's almost always because the loader is loading .38 special cases, and seating the bullet too deep in the case!   A toggle link gun has difficulty with .38 special loads that are under about 1.520" long.   I've loaded thousands of 125 grain TC bullets in .38 special, and can seat them securely out at 1.550" length, and that has ALWAYS fed in many 73s and 66s.  Ignore the crimp groove, crimp into a full diameter band on the bullet if necessary.  In fact, many of those were cast in a 9mm bullet mold and lubed where the bullet shows no sizing, so they come out at 0.356" diameter.  If you use softer (8 Brinnell) lead bullets, they expand from chamber pressure to fill the bore - no leading and good accuracy.

 

This is a loading error, most likely, as the TC bullet is probably the BEST feeding bullet for the Cowboy game.  Get the OAL correct for the type of rifle and the rounds will feed like butter.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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11 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

TC is the standard abbreviation for a Truncated Cone bullet.

 

That's almost always because the loader is loading .38 special cases, and seating the bullet too deep in the case!   A toggle link gun has difficulty with .38 special loads that are under about 1.520" long.   I've loaded thousands of 125 grain TC bullets in .38 special, and can seat them securely out at 1.550" length, and that has ALWAYS fed in many 73s and 66s.  Ignore the crimp groove, crimp into a full diameter band on the bullet if necessary.  In fact, many of those were cast in a 9mm bullet mold and lubed where the bullet shows no sizing, so they come out at 0.356" diameter.  If you use softer (8 Brinnell) lead bullets, they expand from chamber pressure to fill the bore - no leading and good accuracy.

 

This is a loading error, most likely, as the TC bullet is probably the BEST feeding bullet for the Cowboy game.  Get the OAL correct for the type of rifle and the rounds will feed like butter.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

My Rossi 92 .357 hated ANY bullet under 158 grains in a 38 case, but would feed almost anything loaded in 357 cases.

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92 and 73 rifles are completely different beasts and need an OAL that matches what the action can handle.  This isn't magic, it's mechanics. 

 

It's good that a man can realize his gun's limitations.

 

good luck, GJ

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9 hours ago, DeaconKC said:

My Rossi 92 .357 hated ANY bullet under 158 grains in a 38 case, but would feed almost anything loaded in 357 cases.

 

My 92s love 125 gr LTC in 38 special cases as long as I load them to an OAL of at least 1.505. 

 

I tried some 147 gr LTC one time and they worked but had occasional feeding issues. Probably could have found an OAL that would have worked but never got around to it. 

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