Using (lower end)45 colt info to reload 45 schofield

[Marshall Matt Dillon]

My reloading book(s) all have very few loads and powders for 45 schofield, but a lot of different loads and powders for 45 colt. Mainly using richard lee book, second edition. 

 

What would i use to determine safe loads for my schofields using the 45 colt data? Reduce by %? Pressure charts?

 

i will be shooting schofield brass in all my 45 colt and schofield guns, rifles and handguns.

 

edited title for clarification

[Goody, SASS #26190]

This sounds like a VERY bad idea to me. Please find published loads for your Schofield brass.

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

Go to the Hodgdon web site: hodgdonreloading.com.  Look under handgun loads: 45 S&W (Schofield).

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

What kind of powder and bullets do you have?

[Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580]

17 minutes ago, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said:

Go to the Hodgdon web site: hodgdonreloading.com.  Look under handgun loads: 45 S&W (Schofield).

This!!! The Hodgdon site gives you 18 different loads depending on bullet weight!

 

Don't try to finesse the .45 Colt data!

Schofield load data.pdf

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Lee's loading data is wrong place to look for Schofield data.

 

If you don't find data at Hodgdon or Alliant on-line sites (which is the freshest data, but Alliant only has data for the 230 grain lead bullet in the cowboy load section), then buy or borrow a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook, 4th edition.  It has two pages of tested, safe .45 Schofield loading data with 4 different cast bullet weights.

 

With cast bullet loading data, once you find a load for ANY bullet shape, you can use that data with your SAME bullet weight, as long as the load is not near max pressure limits.   At moderate cast bullet pressures, bullet shape matters little to making loads, and OAL matters much more to the feeding in the gun than to making a safe load.  

 

good luck, GJ

[Marshall Matt Dillon]

3 hours ago, Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 said:

This!!! The Hodgdon site gives you 18 different loads depending on bullet weight!

 

Don't try to finesse the .45 Colt data!

Schofield load data.pdf 45.75 kB · 3 downloads

These are the same loads that are in the lee book

[Sedalia Dave]

There is NO safe way to modify 45 colt data for use in 45 S&W (Scholfield).

 

 

 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

PLUS ONE for ALL the folks suggesting you actually find Schofield loading data.  Just because the loading data found isn't to your liking, doesn't mean it's wrong.

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

Lyman 50th Edition also has Schofield loads.

[Marshall Matt Dillon]

 

 

The lee book top loads in 45 schofield are above the starting loads in 45 colt. This is comparing same bullet and powder.  

colt. 

39 minutes ago, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said:

Lyman 50th Edition also has Schofield loads.

Forgot i have that book. It sets on another shelf because it is not the same size as the rest of my books. I’ll check it. 

[Marshall Matt Dillon]

The lyman book did have more. Thanks TJ

[COLORADO JACKSON]

The 45 Schofield will not function in a 73 chambered for 45 Colt correctly without some modifications first.

[McCandless]

You didn't mention what powder you have, so, here's some other Schofield data.  

http://reloadammo.com/45soload/ 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

2 hours ago, COLORADO JACKSON said:

The 45 Schofield will not function in a 73 chambered for 45 Colt correctly without some modifications first.

 

My '73 and many others would beg to differ.  As long as you use 200gr or larger bullet the OAL will be long enough.  The larger rim rarely causes problems.

[Marshall Matt Dillon]

7 hours ago, McCandless said:

You didn't mention what powder you have, so, here's some other Schofield data.  

http://reloadammo.com/45soload/ 

I have too many powders to list. The schofield data overlaps the 45 colt data, so i figure i just have to load on the bottom end of the 45 colt data.

The only powder that does not overlap in my book is the imr trail boss, which i do not have or use.

 

example: 200 gr lead with clays powder

 

45 sch- start load 4.0 gr——never exceed 5.0 gr

45 colt- start load 4.6 gr

 

The 45 colt data start load is in the middle of the schofield data. The 45 colt data shows many more powders , while the less popular schofield only shows very few. My thinking is to translate and use 45 colt start loads only (with a small reduction for safety) with powders not mentioned in schofield data, while looking for my perfect load that makes my schofields shoot where they are pointed, with satisfactory recoil. 

 

You know, that perfect load all handloaders desire! 

[Marshall Matt Dillon]

7 hours ago, McCandless said:

You didn't mention what powder you have, so, here's some other Schofield data.  

http://reloadammo.com/45soload/ 

That is interesting data. I have 8lbs of solo powder i was wondering what to do with it. First mention of solo i have seen for schofield. A bit fast at over 900fps but will try that one. Would be great if i got to use up that powder. Probly will be the best load ever,,,since the powder is discontinued. That would be my luck!

[Sedalia Dave]

52 minutes ago, Marshall Dillon said:

The 45 colt data start load is in the middle of the schofield data. The 45 colt data shows many more powders , while the less popular schofield only shows very few. My thinking is to translate and use 45 colt start loads only (with a small reduction for safety) with powders not mentioned in schofield data, while looking for my perfect load that makes my schofields shoot where they are pointed, with satisfactory recoil. 

 

That line of thinking is going to get you seriously injured. Make sure you health insurance is paid up.

[Marshall Matt Dillon]

1 minute ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

That line of thinking is going to get you seriously injured. Make sure you health insurance is paid up.

Did you not read my example? That is straight out of my reloading book. If i use any of the 45 colt starting data in my reloading book,, i would be using the exact safe data listed in the schofield data, just one page away in the book. Then to make sure, i would slightly reduce charges again for safety until i can read my primers and such. Have you ever developed a wildcat load? Same process.

[McCandless]

 

On 2/4/2021 at 11:13 AM, Marshall Dillon said:

My reloading book(s) all have very few loads and powders for 45 schofield, but a lot of different loads and powders for 45 colt. Mainly using richard lee book, second edition. 

 

What would i use to determine safe loads for my schofields using the 45 colt data? Reduce by %? Pressure charts?

 

i will be shooting schofield brass in all my 45 colt and schofield guns, rifles and handguns.

 

If you have a lot of powders to choose from here is some Alliant Cowboy Load Data.   Note:  They only show MAX powder load and velocity for a 230gr bullet, which was the original wt of the the bullet used in .45 S&W Schofields.   Use that as a starting point for your experimentation with 200gr bullets.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=5&weight=230&shellid=14&bulletid=15 

 

[Pat Riot]

It seems you have decided to do as you intended from the start, so “Carry On”.

 

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Only a couple of things to add:

 

1 - there is no perfect load, just loads good enough to shoot well.   Right now, with severe limits on availability on all sorts of loading components, loading is more a matter of what will work from the components you have or can get.  No one ever got to the awards stand mainly because they had developed a perfect load; success comes from a lot of really good practice.   I have seen really good shooters take random ammunition into EOT and WR top gun shoot offs and still do amazing things.

 

2 - extrapolation out of the range of published data is risky.  You are acting like the performance of smokeless powders is linear and has no surprises in pressure and performance behavior.   I have seen guns blown based on such extrapolation.   Now, our loads are mostly low pressure.  But I have seen several COWBOY guns blown up, too.

 

3 - It's a major risk to your personal liability plan to have to admit in court you were extrapolating loading data to make loads that commercial component companies were not willing to publish.

 

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My thinking is to translate and use 45 colt start loads only (with a small reduction for safety) ....

4 - You are assuming that the starting loads in loading books are all at about the same low level of pressure.  Even when changing powder, and even when working with a much smaller cartridge case (which by itself changes internal ballistics a great deal). Check the books again - they are not.  Some powders do not perform well at low pressures - others do.  And since measuring your own chamber pressure on loads is an expensive undertaking, most folks use the testing done by commercial powder and ammunition makers that DO have pressure results documented to ensure they get a good working AND safe load.

 

5 - About the only powder that has been developed to let folks "calculate" a safe maximum load is Trail Boss.   See the manufacturer's instructions here:

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/trail-boss-reduced-loads-2018.pdf

This technique works only with Trail Boss powder, which has been formulated to be so fluffy (less dense) that even an almost full case is not going to exceed most pistol pressure limits.  But even with this formula there is no lower-limit calculation that always avoids the occasional squib load, which is the arch enemy of Cowboy shooters.  Especially in cold weather.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

[Marshall Matt Dillon]

3 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Only a couple of things to add:

 

1 - there is no perfect load, just loads good enough to shoot well.   Right now, with severe limits on availability on all sorts of loading components, loading is more a matter of what will work from the components you have or can get.  No one ever got to the awards stand mainly because they had developed a perfect load; success comes from a lot of really good practice.   I have seen really good shooters take random ammunition into EOT and WR top gun shoot offs and still do amazing things.

I have zero ambitions to be on an award stand. I will get a load to shoot where the gun aims or sell the gun. I like accuracy. I will shoot at my farm also which requires different accuracy then the steel plates at a sass meet. I have been known to hunt squirrel with a 41 magnum,,,just because,,,but still must hit them in their head or there will be nothing to eat. This years fascination with 45 schofield will require the same accuracy.  

Quote

 

2 - extrapolation out of the range of published data is risky.  You are acting like the performance of smokeless powders is linear and has no surprises in pressure and performance behavior.   I have seen guns blown based on such extrapolation.   Now, our loads are mostly low pressure.  But I have seen several COWBOY guns blown up, too.

I will only be using powders listed for a round that uses exact same bullets, same dia/form brass, just slightly longer. I understand the need to reduce charges for shorter brass.

Quote

 

3 - It's a major risk to your personal liability plan to have to admit in court you were extrapolating loading data to make loads that commercial component companies were not willing to publish.

Lol,,,,court? The squirrels, rabbits and deer will sue? So far,,,,,all the squirrels i have missed, just ran back to their nests and let bygones be bygones.

 

Quote

 

4 - You are assuming that the starting loads in loading books are all at about the same low level of pressure.  Even when changing powder, and even when working with a much smaller cartridge case (which by itself changes internal ballistics a great deal). Check the books again - they are not.  Some powders do not perform well at low pressures - others do.  And since measuring your own chamber pressure on loads is an expensive undertaking, most folks use the testing done by commercial powder and ammunition makers that DO have pressure results documented to ensure they get a good working AND safe load.

I am assuming nothing. I am also comparing pressures in the same book i am comparing powder charges. You make a good point however about different powders acting differently. That is why i am only willing to try powders from 45 colt data,, a similar round, reduced for schofield. 

Quote

 

5 - About the only powder that has been developed to let folks "calculate" a safe maximum load is Trail Boss.   See the manufacturer's instructions here:

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/trail-boss-reduced-loads-2018.pdf

This technique works only with Trail Boss powder, which has been formulated to be so fluffy (less dense) that even an almost full case is not going to exceed most pistol pressure limits.  But even with this formula there is no lower-limit calculation that always avoids the occasional squib load, which is the arch enemy of Cowboy shooters.  Especially in cold weather.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

I have no trail boss. I have read a few pages that claim it is not among the most accurate powder, but have no experience with it. Nice that they provided those instructions. I wish all powders did something similar.

[Marshall Matt Dillon]

I am finding other powders listed in other books that do not support my theory.  

[DeaconKC]

I have had a gun blow up in my hand before. I would really advise NOT to substitute any load data.

[Sedalia Dave]

46 minutes ago, Marshall Dillon said:

I am finding other powders listed in other books that do not support my theory.  

 

This is what we have been trying to tell you. 

 

More than one firearm has been permanently disassembled in a fraction of a second by individuals that either attempt to extrapolate load data from one cartridge to the next or deviate from the manufacturers load data without fully grasping the complexities of what happens when the Bang Button ignites the Magical Fire Dust inside the Metal Holdy Thing.

Sometimes bad results happen the first time they pull the trigger and sometimes is happens a few hundred trigger pulls later.

BTW tool little powder in a cartridge can be worse than too much. 

 

Now about accuracy.

 

The sights on your pistol are adjustable. For pistols without an adjustable rear sight you still have a limited ability to adjust the front sight with a file so that POA equals POI. Sometimes this is possible and sometimes it requires replacing the front sight with a taller one. Sometimes you have to learn to apply Kentucky Windage to your POA so that the POI is where you want it to be.

 

 

[Marshall Matt Dillon]

8 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

This is what we have been trying to tell you. 

 

More than one firearm has been permanently disassembled in a fraction of a second by individuals that either attempt to extrapolate load data from one cartridge to the next or deviate from the manufacturers load data without fully grasping the complexities of what happen when the Bang Button ignites the Magical Fire Dust inside the metal Holdy Thing.

Sometimes bad results happen the first time they pull the trigger and sometimes is happens a few hundred trigger pulls later.

BTW tool little powder in a cartridge can be worse than too much. 

Cartridges must be developed. Data does not appear out of thin air. Where did the 45 cowboy load come from? I bet from similar cartridges.  I was loading 7mmtcu in my contender when there was zero data and we had to make our own brass. This is not a new concept, and i even have previous data to help me on this 45 project. 

8 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Now about accuracy.

 

The sights on your pistol are adjustable. For pistols without an adjustable rear sight you still have a limited ability to adjust the front sight with a file so that POA equals POI. Sometimes this is possible and sometimes it requires replacing the front sight with a taller one. Sometimes you have to learn to apply Kentucky Windage to your POA so that the POI is where you want it to be.

 

 

That does not describe accuracy to me. That is point of aim. The schofield pistols i have do not have adjustable sights. I will not depend on kentucky windage, but will develop a load that shoots to poa. If that is not possible, the gun goes down the road. As far as accuracy, a load that shoots 6 inch group at 40 yards is not acceptable “accuracy” even though it could be considered “point of aim.” 

 

Minute of squirrels head must be obtained.