Any electrical geniuses?

[Alpo]

I'm sitting here watching television. I have the overhead light on. I have a power strip plugged into the wall. The television and the DVD player, and a space heater plugged into the power strip.

 

All of a sudden the TV and DVD and heater stop.

 

If all the power went off - if they stopped and the overhead went out - I will accepted it as a power failure. But the overhead light stayed on. If the TV/DVD/heater had gone off and stayed off, I would think that a breaker had popped - either the strips on personal breaker, or the breaker for that wall socket.

 

But after being off for about five seconds, they came back on.

 

Why would some of my power go off for four or five seconds, but not all of my power?

[Moustache Les]

My guess would be a auto reset circuit breaker on the strip.

[Alpo]

I did not know such a thing existed. I thought when they broke you had to physically reset them.

 

Nice to learn about new things.

[Subdeacon Joe]

I would bet that the heating element in the heater came on and caused the strip to trip and reset because of the initial power draw.

[Cypress Sun]

 

There are various reasons that it could have happened. Generally, a space heater should be plugged directly into a wall receptacle and not a plug strip or extention cord. How many watts (or KW) is the space heater? What you have described could be a problem with the utility company, the plug strip or a loose connection in the circuit that the plug strip into. Most residential receptacle wiring is looped in and out of each receptacle and on to the next one. If there is a loose connection, there could be the potential for a fire. I'm not trying to scare you but the potential is there. Personally (if I wasn't an electrician), I would not use the space heater until it is checked by a professional electrician. 

[Three Foot Johnson]

A small electric space heater draws a lot of power, up to 1750 watts on high, although most tend to be 1500 anymore.

A 20 amp 120v breaker shouldn't be loaded with more than 16 amps with 12/2 wiring.

12g wire used to be the norm for household wiring, but now it's 14g.

14/2 wire is rated at 15 amps.

 

1750 watts/120v is drawing 14.6 amps by itself, while power strips for household use are most often rated at 12 amps.

 

There is likely an auto-reset overheat breaker in the power strip, and you're just expecting too much of it.

[Assassin]

Yep, the electric heater needs to be plugged directly into a socket, no extension cord or power strip. Fire marshal will definitely let you know in an inspection.

Typical electric heater is 1500 watts on highest setting. The lighting in your shop should be on a different circuit than the power outlets. My first guess would be the power strip starting to overheat, they typically don't cool down that quickly or reset themselves. 

[Alpo]

The heater is listed at 750/1500 Watts. If I [s]haven't[/s] DAMN IT OTTO have it set on the 750 - low - setting, it should only be drawing six and a quarter amps. Right?

 

And I have unplugged it from the power strip and it is now plugged into the wall.

[Assassin]

I think it .7 amps per 100 watts.

[sassnetguy50]

23 minutes ago, Assassin said:

I think it .7 amps per 100 watts.

Watts Law is a relationship so that is correct if the system is 70 volts. Amps are 0.83 per 100 watts in a 120v system.

 

Current=power÷voltage

[Cholla]

Sounds like a problem you need to get checked. Many electricians use stab lock receptacles which only use spring tension to make the connection. And, they use the cheapest receptacles available. This adds up to spring tension being lost, the connection getting worse, insulation starts melting, the connection gets worse. The circuit stops working totally or a fire starts. Seen it many times. Electric heaters cause many fires. Stab lock receptacles cause fires. Put the two together and problems happen. The power going on and off may just have been your warning. Heed it.

 

I always wrap my screw connections on outlets and never use the stab locks. Better yet is to pigtail the wire so the connection is not relying on an outlet at all. If you saw the spring connection that makes the connection, you would be horrified.

[Cypress Sun]

7 hours ago, Cholla said:

Sounds like a problem you need to get checked. Many electricians use stab lock receptacles which only use spring tension to make the connection. And, they use the cheapest receptacles available. This adds up to spring tension being lost, the connection getting worse, insulation starts melting, the connection gets worse. The circuit stops working totally or a fire starts. Seen it many times. Electric heaters cause many fires. Stab lock receptacles cause fires. Put the two together and problems happen. The power going on and off may just have been your warning. Heed it.

 

I always wrap my screw connections on outlets and never use the stab locks. Better yet is to pigtail the wire so the connection is not relying on an outlet at all. If you saw the spring connection that makes the connection, you would be horrified.

 

Yep, quite possibly the worst invention in the electrical world was the stab lock receptacle. Over the 40+ years of being an electrician, I've repaired hundreds (no exaggeration) of burnt receptacle/wiring or non working receptacles that were caused by stab locks. Only saw one small fire caused by them but plenty of others that would have if it hadn't been for breakers that worked properly and tripped. The one with the fire was due to a combo of a stab lock receptacle and a FPE panel.

 

Like you, I always use the side screws or pigtail the wires. I wish I had an old receptacle laying around that I could take a picture of the back stab locks and then a picture of it without the back on so that the stab locks were visible. What a crap design. The only time the the stab locks actually work is when you want to remove the wires from the receptacle to replace or repair it. They still have the stab lock design in use today for use with #14 gauge wire only....why, I don't know. The design is faulty and should be against NEC to prevent use. I guess well funded lobbyists and contractors win out over safety.

[Cholla]

2 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

The one with the fire was due to a combo of a stab lock receptacle and a FPE panel.

 

 

FPE= Federal Pacific Electric if I remember correctly. Any FPE panel should instantly be changed or get good homeowners and life insurance. Worst design ever. Worse than the old GE (?) panels with aluminum buss bars. I forget the other name manufacturer that used the same style breakers as FPE.

 

Edit: If you can hear a sizzling sound in your panel or you can make the lights flicker or dim by pushing on a breaker, you need to change the panel and breakers. If an outlet sizzles or is discolored or if plugs seem to just fall out, replace them.

[Cypress Sun]

1 hour ago, Cholla said:

FPE= Federal Pacific Electric if I remember correctly. Any FPE panel should instantly be changed or get good homeowners and life insurance. Worst design ever. Worse than the old GE (?) panels with aluminum buss bars. I forget the other name manufacturer that used the same style breakers as FPE.

 

Edit: If you can hear a sizzling sound in your panel or you can make the lights flicker or dim by pushing on a breaker, you need to change the panel and breakers. If an outlet sizzles or is discolored or if plugs seem to just fall out, replace them.

 

Zinsco and older GE panels were bad also. Cholla is quite correct about dimming lights, etc. Loose electrical connections = heat. Too much heat = fire.

 

Some may find this funny...or not. I went out to do an estimate on a residential panel replacement. The man at the house told me that his Zinsco panel was making a buzzing sound. As a joke, I told him that was the buzz bar (supposed to be buss bar) making that sound and was normal. He didn't get the joke but we did get the job.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Naw.  Cummon evrbody!!  It's really quite simple.  Electricity just doesn't like Alpo.  Sheesh.

[Ramblin Gambler]

Alpo you should check your breaker box (or have an electrician do it).  A loose wire like what cholla described can cause what you saw.  The loose wire causes a voltage drop that will shut off things like TVs and space heaters.  But lights often run just fine on reduced voltage.  Could be a ground problem, could be on an individual breaker, or it could be a leg of the main power coming into your house.  Open up the breaker panel and just make sure everything is tight.  Especially if it keeps happening.  People have a tendency to let things like that go as long as it only happens once in a while. 

[Michigan Slim]

Whenever I move into a house I tighten all the connections in the breaker box and change out all the outlets. Always a loose wire in the box and old outlets scare me. Full of dust and bad connections.

[South-Eye Ned]

Wall demon

[Three Foot Johnson]

A couple years ago or so, I would occasionally catch a faint whiff of something in my kitchen that smelled like rotten meat or somesuch. Eventually the kitchen outlets quit working, and I tracked it down to this. Kind of odd one set of wires were screwed on, and the other set used the stab locks on the same side. It appears it was the neutral wire plugged into the stab lock. This is a relatively old house (1974), and the neighbor that wired it for my folks was *supposedly* a master electrician and plumber, but damn, he did a lot of dumb things in this place, like only ONE kitchen circuit, for instance. Or hanging the basement utility room (washer/dryer/sink) plumbing under the ceiling because he didn't want to take the time to drill through the floor joists and put it out of sight. Or one single light in the center of the garage ceiling with the switch on the hinge side of the exterior entrance door - you have to open the door, step inside, close the door, and then you can reach the light switch.

 

For years when my folks still lived here, there was trouble with several other circuits in the house. After they passed and I moved in, I noticed they were all on the same bus in the breaker panel. I took the front off and found the set screw on one of the main feeds had never been tightened down. There was some obvious heat discoloration, but I gave it a good wire brushing with some antioxidant, stuck it back in, tightened the set screw, turned the service breaker back on, and it's been working fine ever since.