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Wisdom of a 200 dollar tax with registration on all semi-auto "assault rifles" and magazines over 10 rounds.


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Just want opinions or views on the specific proposal as made. Not interested or seeking any discussion of any politics, there are other forums for that so please no political parties and no individual politicians discussed at all.

 

The proposal would per what I have read, require registration of all whatever are defined as "assault weapons" which could depending on definition be anything from just AR15's to AR15's, AK47's, and M1A's, and any semiauto box fed rifle - it would also include all magazines that hold over 10 rounds which from my understanding would include pistol magazines. 

 

Now many people I know (at least until their tragic boating accidents) would be on the hook for over 10,000 dollars - some much more. The penalties indicated for having a non-registered rifle or magazine would be the same as having a non-registered machine gun. 

 

I have now read numerous public posts from individuals indicating that if that is the case then they may as well own a non-licensed machine gun. Implying that they will feel free to convert their semi-auto firearms to full auto since they aren't going to comply and the penalty is the same. 

 

We know from history - in the US and even in Canada that registration compliance with such laws is dismal. In Connecticutt where a law requiring registration of assault weapons was passed and the state already had a list of owners due to a previous law requiring state reporting of sales of such firearms - more than 90 percent didn't register. Initially the States Atty made noises about using the states list to go after those who failed to comply but then backed down when it became apparent that many of those who failed to comply made up a large portion of all the police in the state. 

 

Given there are currently no lists for most privately owned weapons and in most states no way to track sales after intial retail sale, and no lists at all for magazines that hold over 10 rounds. What is the wisdom of passing such a law. If people are openly talking about not just defiance but also then converting weapons to full auto would such a law not be counter productive of what it is supposedly supposed to do?

 

Would the net effect not be to just make millions of citizens criminals and alienate them from their government where they would have formerly been more predisposed to support their government or at least give government the benefit of the doubt? Would it not possibly engender tens of thousands if not millions more full auto firearms in the possesion of civilians? Civilians who are at odds with their own government. 

 

This seems like a really really bad idea. Am I wrong about the results or potential consequences of such legislation?

 

Again please just opinions on such proposed legislation and the effects of such legislation and not political statements or opinions please. 

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Cold, dead hands......

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Once you start Paying Ransom to keep Private Property ,, It NEVER STOPS !!!

And Your GOD given Right is no more .... 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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This country is full of ne'er-do-wells who have committed heinous and violent crimes including murder, rape, arson, robbery and the list goes on.

Why make any effort at making law-abiding, peaceful citizens into criminals over any topic?

All the laws imaginable have not reduced repeat drunk drivers and child abusers.

It's like, "So we sucked at fixing that problem; let's go make another."

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5 minutes ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

I would say it's unwise, to answer the question.

 

Agree.   VERY Unwise!

 

..........Widder

 

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Not wise.

 

Not wise for many reasons.

 

On a related note, I hope SCOTUS takes up the NYS challenge, where ordinary citizens can not establish sufficient cause to be "allowed" to carry.

 

And hopefully they remind the gun-grabbing portion of our population that firearms in common use can not be restricted. Not with local or state bans, not with federal bans or expensive (or even inexpensive) stamps. And no registry.

 

That registry thing... By taking millions of items in common use and requiring "permission" through a background check, or even a rubber stamp with the proper fees... That is a registry. For commonly owned firearms.

Edited by John Kloehr
typos
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It’ll Never happen! 

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It's purpose is simple.  The cost is meant to drive "honest citizens" to give up their firearms and magazines. 

Simple.

 

BS

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Amigos, I'd be VERY cautious about saying it will never happen. Lot of things I thought would never happen have happened right before our eyes in the last year. The list would be VERY long.

JHC :angry:

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The processing system will need improvement.  Imagine how many years the current system would take to process the existing product.  Now tell the public they can buy their Ruger 10/22 now and file for the tax stamp.  It will take 15 years to process, then you can pick it up.  

 

It won't stay in the current form.  It will be modified as "compromise" and have a good chance to pass.

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This seems like a really really bad idea

You’re right.

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If they passed this, it would be a "feel good piece." It would be one more example of idiots passing something to show folks they are doing "something" about a particular problem, not that it would do what they want or say.

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Just more stupid crap from stupid people listening to other stupid people....who are praying that we are all stupid enough to let them get away with their stupidity on so many levels.  :angry:

 

:FlagAm: 

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Several considerations.  First;  If there were currently a very limited number of primarily military type guns on the street, it might possibly work.  But it's a Bad Idea.  Since there are several Hundred Thousand already on the street, It's a Bad Idea.  I'm a proponent of the Second Amendment.  However, I see no need for Military intended "Assault" weapons on the street.  They were designed and intended for a single purpose.  Shooting People.  However, at this point in time, with the numbers already prevalent, enforcement is ludicrous.  It's a Bad Idea.  It's also unenforceable.  Ergo, It's a Bad Idea.

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So many problems with CC's statements, but thank God he still has he right to make them and the means to defend himself if he finds the need to.....and people around who can help if he should need that help.

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By the way, while on the subject of "it'll never happen" there's been a bill introduced in WA state that will ban ALL semi-automatic rifles. Yes, even .22LR Marlin Model 60s. It may sound too outrageous to pass but don't put anything past them.

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Wasn't the 1873 SAA or Winchester also made for shooting people? Hmmm. The 1860 Henry debued for shooting people. Hmmm.

 

Exactly which military uses the AR15 again? Hmmm.

 

The OP mentions the word wisdom in reference to the current administration.  Bwaaaaahahahahahaha! Thar ain't none there.

 

NFAing non serial numbered accessories cannot be done.  Banning them can.

 

Get ready for INFRINGEMENT.

 

 

Edited by Dantankerous
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If the numbers are correct, there are approximately 100 million magazines with more than 10 rnds and 30 million ar’s in the USA.    Just the time alone required to process 130 million applications make it unworkable.  Will they really lock up 10, 20k of protestors who show up holding magazines?   Where will the put them all?  
 

Then you get into the fact the ar platform is like Legos.  Ban semi autos, pretty easy to convert it to a bolt gun or if it’s a California style ban, it just becomes featureless.   The guns won’t be registered or get turned in.  They will still sell ar’s legally, just not with the evil features.   Look at england, long range shooter still shoot ar’s just bolt versions.   I expect even if passed, the details would take years to work out via lawsuits.   

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Wisdom of a 200 dollar tax registration...?

 

Wisdom isn't used at the Yankee Federal government level.

 

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It could happen, given the current climate in Washington and elsewhere.  If proposed, the question that must be brought up is how much would it cost to set up administration of such a program.  And don't tell me or let them tell you that the $200 fee would cover the costs!  That would be the way to attack such a proposal in the event that SCOTUS refused to take up the case, which they might well do on the basis that such a law would simply limit the right to keep and bear arms, not prohibit it!

Stay well and safe, Pards!  Iligitimae non carburundom!

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Well numbers wise it's estimated there are per NRA 20 million so called "assault weapons" or modern sporting rifles whilst the NSSF estimated around 16 million 2 years ago. I would suggest given the number of home built AR15s plus the number of AK47 semi-autos out there along with a number of other designs like Tavor, as well as the M1As and Ruger Mini 14s there must be well over 30 million total such firearms in civilian hands. Given an average of 6 magazines per rifle (some will own two mags, many more 5 or 6, and some twenty or more) I would estimate at least 180 million rifle mags. Then add in pistol mags over 10 rounds - how many Glocks, Sigs, H&K's, Springfields, M&Ps, even the venerable Browning Hi-Power since the 1930's. Since pistols are more popular than rifles in recent decades but since most don't probably in my experience own quite as many pistol mags per pistol - add conservatively another 150 million pistol mags over 10 rounds. That's a total of 360 million firearms and magazines that would be NFA items to be processed, registered, and taxed. So the tax burden would be around 72 billion dollars. As per the "cost to society" of these rifles - all rifles including "Assault Weapons" are involved in fewer fatalities than people beaten to death by hands and feet and way less than people knifed to death. The FBI has yearly reports that verify this year after year. 

 

As someone else has pointed out pretty much every firearm has a history of military use or adoption - that bolt action, yep was a weapon of war from pre-1900 through WWII. That pistol (1911, Browning Hi-Power, Glock, etc...) yep all weapons of war. Ironically the AR15 is the only one that was never a weapon of war - they were manufactured since the 1960's for sale to civilians in semi-automatic form. The military used and uses the M16 and M4 or variants that are full auto or burst fire capable, and none of those are currently available to the public. And no military to my knowlege has ever issued either semi-automatic AR15s or AK47s to their troops.

 

Another issue to consider is that the overwhelming number of firearms sold are modern semi-auto (modern being a relative term as wonder nines or high capacity 9mm handguns have been available since the 1930's; and Winchester sold a semi-auto 15 round box fed rifle to civilians as early as 1907 - the Winchester Model 1907 which fired a cartridge similar in power to a 30-30 and which could use 15 round detachable magazines - imagine having to NFA register great grandpa's Model 1907 and its magazines). But point being that this essentially this would create a defacto registration system for most of the firearms owned in this country. But you say, pistols aren't covered - true they aren't themselves directly covered but if you have registered magazines for pistols as would be required then essentially you have practically verified you have a semi-auto pistol - "Oh, I just registered 4 Glock magazines at 200 dollars a piece just for sh$ts and giggles, I don't actually have a Glock." The only firearms not essentially registered will be revolvers, lever guns, most shotguns, and pocket pistols. Oh, and 1911's. So basically they are making most firearms designed since the early 1900's though the 1960's subject to the NFA. 

Edited by Raylan
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Correct me if i'm wrong But didn't YA all use Enfield 2 banded Rifled Muskets and Brown Bess's in Your army to defeat the British ....

Also Kentucky Rifles ....

So best Ban them as well .... 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Weren't muzzle loaders once "weapons of war"? Hmmm.

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