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Any replica better than another for shooting frontier cartridge?


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I'm looking to get a couple of cartrdge pistols (preferably 44-40 to match my rifle) to shoot frontier cartridge when I dont want to shoot the cap and balls.  Couple of guys have mentioned they had trouble with some guns vs. others when using real bp.  Is there anything to that?  I was thinking 1875s.. Obviously they all originally  shot bp but I could see how some of the replicas might have more trouble than others with residue, or at least how some might be less prone to issues after a long day of shooting.  Sorry if that seems like a dumb question (it seems dumb in my head, but I have no shame :) )

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Remingtons and Schofields can be problematic with real BP.

 

Myself,  if I'm getting anything other than a Ruger Vaquero it'll be a Pietta and likely from EMF.

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Of all the clones of Schofield, Model 3 and similar designs will give you the most problems.

 

Next in line is the 1875 Remington. They will shoot real BP and the subs ok but you will have to remove the cylinder, wipe them down, then clean and regrease the base pin between stages.

 

You will have the best luck with Colt clones and Ruger Vaqueros. Remember to only use BP compatible lubes. I use Mobil 1 full synthetic grease and Ballistol. I can shoot 6 stages easily with either my Ruger Vaqueros or my 71/72 open tops.

 

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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My ‘75s have been gunsmithed extensively, but there is little that was done to them to make them Black Powder friendly.  I have shot them in Frontier Cartridge successfully for years!  The real secret, in my opinion, is the ammunition!  I load my ammo with a lubed wad over the powder. This keeps the fouling soft and makes maintenance and cleaning MUCH easier! 

 

I’ve shot as many as ten stages in a day without any major problem and only a spritz of Ballistol and a quick wipe down every three or four stages.

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26 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

My preference would be Pietta Great Western II.  Personally, I prefer stainless.

 

I just wish they made stainless in 38WCF and 44WCF.  

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I greatly prefer 1872 Opentops to run real BP for few fouling problems. My daughter runs 7.5' barrelled Uberti 1873's with equal success. I have only shot my new to me pair of 1878's a couple of times but so far no problems. All in 44-40.

   IMHO it is not so  much the gun but how you use it, as to cartridge selection and lubing practices. Lots of proper lube in the proper places makes a great difference.

 

 

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For them Least Trouble Running REAL blackpowder  get your Guns Chambered in .38 WCF ( 38-40 ).

Uberti Makes Cattlemen in this caliber, and you might be able to find some New guns ( old stock ) with 4 click Hammers , like I did last fall ...

Wish Open-tops Were available in >.38WCF ......

 

Jabez Cowboy 

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1 minute ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

For them Least Trouble Running REAL blackpowder  get your Guns Chambered in .38 WCF ( 38-40 ).

Uberti Makes Cattlemen in this caliber, and you might be able to find some New guns ( old stock ) with 4 click Hammers , like I did last fall ...

Wish Open-tops Were available in >.38WCF ......

 

Jabez Cowboy 

 

I also have this Cimarron Old Model in 38WCF and love it. 

 

1283735208_ModelPnewgripsNov2019.jpg.1c0d781c90ada00a659727e2f8ce8215.jpg

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Colts...  I think they call the model P.  The four I have, have never given a moments trouble with BP.

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I use to have a pair of Colts and they were set at right around .007 when I got em, they ran smooth all day.

Bought my USFA Rodeos new and both were set right around .002 from the factory, they would start dragging after 2 or 3 stages

I opened the gap to .007 and they run all day, smooth as glass.

My Pietta '58 cap guns one has .0025 the other .003 They run smooth for 5 shoots....

so I wipe the cyl and barrel down at every reload.

 

But on my two Ruger NMV they run perfect all day with no problems at the factory setting of .003......

 

So from my experience I'd say NMV's

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My NMV Will run about a stage and a half with-out a Spray-down and Wipe ,,, Been Planning to Recut the Leade to 11 degree and open up the cylinder gap to .006... Just haven't got around to doing my own guns Yet ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

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I have a pair of NMV’s in .45c and mine bind up after 3 stages.  My EL MALO’s run 6 stages with just a squirt of Ballistol around stage 4.  I’m of the opinion that since BP is “dirtier” than that heathen smokeless if the tolerances of the particular gun is too close you’ll likely get cylinder binding, that’s probably why everyone has different experiences with one gun or another.  I like the KISS method when it comes to reloading, same caliber, same load, of course I don’t win a lot, YMMV.  

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1 minute ago, Tequila Shooter said:

  I like the KISS method when it comes to reloading, same caliber, same load, of course I don’t win a lot, YMMV.  

I have no illusions of winning a lot, if ever, for sure :) definitely looking for the wisdom to keep it simple ;)

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I shot uberti/Cimarron 73 7 1/2" pistols for a long time in .45 colt with real and bp subs. No issues, I moved to .45 Richard masons for 6-7 years and just recently got a couple of pairs of open tops. One pair .38 and one pair .45 never had an issue with either. Keep your pistols lubes with a non petroleum based lube, bore butter or mobile 1 on the arbor or cylinder pin and balistols everywhere else. 

I have a schofield that absolutely will not run anything related to black powder. 

Rafe

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Cause everthin' else I have says Ruger, I vote for open tops in 44 Colt/Russian/Special. Waaaaaayyy toooooooo much fun with FFFg and a 200 grain bullet.

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So basically, any Colt or Colt repro, both topstrap and opentop models, should be fine with BP.  Having enough soft lube helps.  Slight modifications could be needed if things are too tight.  If you are wanting to stick with 44-40, that eliminates the opentops (unless you want to do some chamber reaming).  So your main choices will be Colts SAA's or Pietta/Uberti repros.  Pick a barrel length and frame style.

 

1875's may be doable, but based on others' trials, they may need work.

 

edit: I didn't' mention Rugers because you said replicas.

Edited by Abilene, SASS # 27489
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14 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Myself,  if I'm getting anything other than a Ruger Vaquero it'll be a Pietta and likely from EMF.

Just got two pair of cap and ball pistolas from EMF. 1851s in 44 and 1858 Sheriff's in 44 also. Best prices I could find. I think Pietta owns EMF. 

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Most anything you find chambered in 44/40 is going to workout pretty well with bp. Now I will say that my 1875s were a little messyer than my omvs. But any colt clone in that caliber should do just fine. As mentioned with proper lube even my converted 1858s in 45 worked quite well. But annealing your brass and loading a grease cookie adds to the effort which is why ive switched to 44/40s. 

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21 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Remingtons and Schofields can be problematic with real BP.

 

Myself,  if I'm getting anything other than a Ruger Vaquero it'll be a Pietta and likely from EMF.

The guns  making the fire  & smoke in this post are EMF Great  Western II’s in 44-40. Been runnin’ BP in them since 2004. Never a problem shooting 2 day match’s with minimal cleaning overnight. 
I also run a pair of Uberti 1860 conversions with BP and Springfield Slim’s 200 grain Big Lube in 44 Russian cases with good results.

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I started out shooting a 1st and 2cd gen Colts. Finally got smart and stopped using them. (Too valuable). Tried both the 75 and 92 Remington's and didn't like either of them at all. Got a pair of Uberti clones from Cimarron in the early 90s and they did a stellar job and are still great guns. When Ruger came out with the NRV I got a pair and they are excellent.  There is only one current clone that I don't care for.  It is only available as a so-called Fully tuned gun. I've had several of them brought to me due to various problems.  I won't say which it is, but IMO they are much too light and overly "Tuned" resulting in many FTF and out of Time issues. There is such a thing as going too far. 

 

Snakebite

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Thats great. Mine was first year of production with all original parts, stamps and cartuch. Ainsworth stamping. I got over 5 figures for it. The 2cd was a shooter but still fetched a good sum. 

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18 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

Thats great. Mine was first year of production with all original parts, stamps and cartuch. Ainsworth stamping. I got over 5 figures for it. The 2cd was a shooter but still fetched a good sum. 

 

Sounds like it should be in a museum.  

 

None of my Colts have any collector value.  All my first and second generation are far less than pristine.  I have two third generation that I bought new and just shoot them. Nothing special about them.  

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Yes, it should have been, but museums don't pay what private collector do, they expect folks to all be generous and donate things. Selling high dollar collectibles is tricky business. I got screwed by RIA actions. IMO they rigged the auction. Put my item up and sold it 20 secs later for about a 1/3 of what they told me it should go for. 

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I shoot mostly Real Black in 45 Colt, wife shoots 38 Spl.  I have had the best luck with Colt clones. That being said, my ‘75 Remington’s are my favorite and feel best in hand so I mostly shoot them. I have found just run the base pin in and out after each stage. Drop cylinder every 3-4. My Open Tops and the wife’s GW II run 6 stages with no problems.  Almost forgot my 44-40 are OMV, never had a problem with them and Black either. 

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On 1/18/2021 at 9:32 PM, Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 said:

I use   blued OMV 44-40 with no problems, don't touch them during a 12 stage shoot over 2/3 days.  

How does YA shoot them with-out touching Them ???

I guess Things work differently Down under ....;)

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

 

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On 1/18/2021 at 10:32 PM, Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 said:

I use   blued OMV 44-40 with no problems, don't touch them during a 12 stage shoot over 2/3 days.  

 

3 hours ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

How does YA shoot them with-out touching Them ???

I guess Things work differently Down under ....;)

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

 

That's why he doesn't have problems with em! Easier to clean up too!

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