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We may have had this or similar WTC a while back. I could not find it by searching, but never have had much luck searching threads!

 

order is rifle pistol shotgun. 
 

shooter shoots 9 out of rifle. Grounds rifle, draws pistol. TO yells one more.  Shooter puts pistol (uncocked) on shelf, picks up rifle, fired last round, then picks up pistol and finishes. 
About 1/3 wanted MSV. 1/3 a P, 1/3 no call. 
 

Those that wanted penalty said if he had re-holstered pistol would have been a no call, but laying on shelf was a penalty. 
 

FWIW I was in the No call camp. 

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Did not cock pistol, so hammer is down on the empty chamber. What is the safety concern?

 

Procedural? Rounds not fired out of turn so on what basis?

 

I'm left with no call.

 

Will look at the rule book again when/if I have time, but I'm not seeing an issue. But I do see re-holstering would have been perhaps more logical.

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Shooter has until next gun is FIRED to correct the round in the rifle.

Done correctly - No call there.

 

Pistols were carried to the line and staged properly BEFORE the beep.

Done correctly - No call there.

 

Pistols were returned to leather after the shooting string.

Done correctly - No call there.

 

No provision exists that forbids staging pistols safely after the beep.

 

Nothing to penalize - nothing unsafe.

No call.

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Weighing in after PWB just seems so WRONG!  Glad you knew the right answer Hoss!!!

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19 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

No violation of any rule, procedure, or safety/handling convention = NO PENALTY.

I was 99% on that. FWIW no call was made. 

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Y’all forgot one important detail about the round in the rifle, where was it?

 

Was the rifle grounded open or closed? Did any part of the round make it into the chamber, even if the action was open?  If any part of the round started to enter the chamber, than the round is considered chambered, even if it was left open. 

 

SDQ if any part of the unfired round made it into the chamber. 

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17 minutes ago, Renegade Plowboy said:

Y’all forgot one important detail about the round in the rifle, where was it?

 

Was the rifle grounded open or closed? Did any part of the round make it into the chamber, even if the action was open?  If any part of the round started to enter the chamber, than the round is considered chambered, even if it was left open. 

 

SDQ if any part of the unfired round made it into the chamber. 

 

The shooter has until the NEXT firearm is fired to correct/ negate the penalty.

 

IF the next firearm is discharged - THEN the bullet location becomes a determining factor in the penalty.

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022
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55 minutes ago, Renegade Plowboy said:

Y’all forgot one important detail about the round in the rifle, where was it?

 

Was the rifle grounded open or closed? Did any part of the round make it into the chamber, even if the action was open?  If any part of the round started to enter the chamber, than the round is considered chambered, even if it was left open. 

 

SDQ if any part of the unfired round made it into the chamber. 

Bullet not in chamber. Action open 

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1 hour ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

 

The shooter has until the NEXT firearm is fired to correct/ negate the penalty.

 

IF the next firearm is discharged - THEN the bullet location becomes a determining factor in the penalty.

 

My understanding is that if a loaded long gun, live round in chamber even if action is open, leaves the shooters hand(s) at that point it becomes a SDQ. I forgot to add the part of the long gun leaving the shooters hand(s) in my previous reply.   If this is the case, than yes the location of the live round does make a difference even before the next gun is fired. SDQ situations are not correctable. 

 

If my understanding is incorrect, can someone please clarify?  Thank You. 

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1 hour ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

 

The shooter has until the NEXT firearm is fired to correct/ negate the penalty.

 

IF the next firearm is discharged - THEN the bullet location becomes a determining factor in the penalty.

I know Hoss said the round wasn’t in the camber so all is well but if it had been it would have been a SDQ as soon as it left the shooters hand. 

 

Randy

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4 minutes ago, Renegade Plowboy said:

 

My understanding is that if a loaded long gun, live round in chamber even if action is open, leaves the shooters hand(s) at that point it becomes a SDQ. I forgot to add the part of the long gun leaving the shooters hand(s) in my previous reply.   If this is the case, than yes the location of the live round does make a difference even before the next gun is fired. SDQ situations are not correctable. 

 

If my understanding is incorrect, can someone please clarify?  Thank You. 

I typed too slow on my phone, you beat me to it. 

 

Randy

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Quote

Staging or discarding a long gun containing a live round in the chamber (once it leaves the shooter’s hands).

SHB p.22 - STAGE DQs

 

If that was the case, the rest of the OP questions would have been moot.

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You get the reply from Palewolf and then you get the three pages of "what ifs" to drag it out.

 

Just saying,

BS

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Question regarding the round in the chamber in this scenario.   As the TO, you count the shooter only fired 9, they drop the rifle pull the pistol as you are yelling 'One More'.  When are you to have time to check if the nose of the bullet entered the chamber.  Just not practical to step into the shooters way to check the chamber or to pause the shooter to confirm.  Especially on a really fast shooter where there is no position change between rifle and pistol.  Transition speed is just too quick.

 

Totes

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I honestyl don't understand why the rule book differentiates between live round in the chamber and live round on the carrier (actually "in" the carrier here): In both cases, if the lever gets closed the round is chambered under a cocked hammer (at least with a 73, 66 or Henry design). Am I missing something..?

I understand the difference if the round really lies on top of the carrier (after jacketing it out for example).

 

Equanimous

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1 hour ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Wouldn't the round being on the carrier of the "out of the shooter's hands" rifle be an MSV?

Not because they hadn't started the next string but because it had left their hands.

Shooters Handbook page 16 "Long guns will be emptied and discarded with their barrels pointed safely downrange.  This condition may be corrected on the clock, prior to the next round being fired." So the whole issue of it leaving the shooters hands is moot because he corrected it before firing the next round, pistol in this case. If the shooter had decided to take the miss and continue, then the TO would check the rifle to assess penalty based on condition.

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8 minutes ago, Equanimous Phil said:

I honestyl don't understand why the rule book differentiates between live round in the chamber and live round on the carrier (actually "in" the carrier here): In both cases, if the lever gets closed the round is chambered under a cocked hammer (at least with a 73, 66 or Henry design). Am I missing something..?

I understand the difference if the round really lies on top of the carrier (after jacketing it out for example).

 

Equanimous

I have asked this same question before. Answer is cuz the rulebook says so.

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1 hour ago, Totes Magoats said:

Question regarding the round in the chamber in this scenario.   As the TO, you count the shooter only fired 9, they drop the rifle pull the pistol as you are yelling 'One More'.  When are you to have time to check if the nose of the bullet entered the chamber.  Just not practical to step into the shooters way to check the chamber or to pause the shooter to confirm.  Especially on a really fast shooter where there is no position change between rifle and pistol.  Transition speed is just too quick.

 

Totes

TO would only need to check this at the end of the stage.

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Then if that is the case, I disagree with the rule book. That paragraph is confusing anyway. If you get an SDQ for leaving a live round "in the chamber" and that takes affect "upon leaving the shooter's hands", then why wouldn't the shooter get the MSV under the same conditions? Did the fact that they picked it up again and fired the last round that was on the carrier before firing the next sequence make it any safer than if they had left it until the end of the stage? No

So, why does the SDQ take affect when leaving the hands but not the MSV? Does not make sense.

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23 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Then if that is the case, I disagree with the rule book. That paragraph is confusing anyway. If you get an SDQ for leaving a live round "in the chamber" and that takes affect "upon leaving the shooter's hands", then why wouldn't the shooter get the MSV under the same conditions? Did the fact that they picked it up again and fired the last round that was on the carrier before firing the next sequence make it any safer than if they had left it until the end of the stage? No

So, why does the SDQ take affect when leaving the hands but not the MSV? Does not make sense.

 

I am just glad you didn't ask why a live or fired round left in a rifle is a MSV and a live or fired round left in a pistol is not.

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10 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

 

I am just glad you didn't ask why a live or fired round left in a rifle is a MSV and a live or fired round left in a pistol is not.

Don't poke the bear.

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