Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

CZ To Buy Colt???


Recommended Posts

Czech weapons manufacturer and Heckler & Koch competitor CZ is planning the complete takeover of the world-famous US company Colt - including its Canadian subsidiary. For this purpose, after research by WELT AM SONNTAG, a declaration of intent was signed. A spokeswoman for CZ Ceská Zbrojovka confirmed the plan in principle to the newspaper. "We will inform you about major developments in due course," she said.
CZ put the entry plans hidden online at the end of November - and didn't even mention the name Colt in the headline. Apparently there is still no agreement. In the industry, CZ is seen as an awakening giant. In mid-2020, the holding company Ceská Zbrojovka Group SE (CZG) went public on the Prague Stock Exchange.
With a good 1,600 employees, CZ has more than twice as many employees as Heckler & Koch and is also slightly larger in terms of turnover. For CZ, the USA is by far the company's largest sales market so far. In the first nine months of 2020, 70 percent of sales of around 191 million euros were achieved in the USA.
Colt is considered an icon of the US arms industry. The 160-year-old company from Hartford, Connecticut, USA, has its origins in the revolver business invented by the company's founder, Samuel Colt. In 2015, Colt had to file a Chapter 11 bankruptcy under US bankruptcy law, with business continuing.
 
 
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Czech ownership may be a breath of fresh air in the dusty, uninventive halls of Colt.  Colt has certainly had ample opportunity to reform itself, and any number of US manufacturers have had an equal opportunity to buy in.  Time for new blood, perhaps.

 

LL

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure about Czech, but Italy and Japan both have high labor costs.  I blame poor management and leaders that fundamentally do not understand their product or their market, but then again that sort of sums up the history of Colt.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Failures certainly by Colt Execs and capital providers (VCs) looking to milk the existing product lines for what profit they could.  Only innovation recently was the re-run of Colt Cobra (Python, reduced in rank) - something that certainly is not in the mainstream of demand now.

.

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting but this stuck out to me...............

 

CZ put the entry plans hidden online at the end of November - and didn't even mention the name Colt in the headline. Apparently there is still no agreement. In the industry, CZ is seen as an awakening giant. In mid-2020, the holding company Ceská Zbrojovka Group SE (CZG) went public on the Prague Stock Exchange.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Failures certainly by Colt Execs and capital providers (VCs) looking to milk the existing product lines for what profit they could.  Only innovation recently was the re-run of Colt Cobra (Diamondback, reduced in rank) - something that certainly is not in the mainstream of demand now.

.

 

+1  

Colt has made one series of mis-steps after the other.  Late in 2019 they suspended civilian sales of the AR-15.   One year later they could have sold every AR they were capable of producing as gun sales rocketed.  Colt semi-auto pistols of any size or caliber?  They were hard to find before 2020... impossible to find new at all around here. 

The new-buyer civilian market wants semi-auto compact 9mm's.  Colt had nothing to offer.   Single Action Army?  USFA showed what could be done. 

Snake-series wheelguns and police/military contracts for M-16s are not going to keep the company afloat, when the military is looking for their next-gen battle rifle and police departments are having their budgets cut. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Another example where US labor and operating costs killed a business. The Japanese, Italians, and now Czech's have figured out how to make guns and be competitive.

Bottom line numbers management should be pushed to the top of your list perhaps. Out of touch greed and profit targets at the corporate level have  butchered Colt... Remington.... etc. There are many other companies to numerous to mention outside the firearms industry that have suffered the same fate!

If labor is the boogie man, how can a company like Ruger survive and flourish in today’s market, selling USA made products?

I’ve seen it first hand, usually it’s the work force holding the sinking ship together at the end, damn sure it’s not managers!

Edited by Captain Clark
  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Captain Clark said:

Bottom line numbers management should be pushed to the top of your list perhaps

Did I say anything about who was the cause of labor cost issues? No!. In any business labor is the number 1 cost. Materials and facilities not so much. I always offer the auto industry, some guy getting $35/hr to bolt seats in a Chevy!

  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Did I say anything about who was the cause of labor cost issues? No!. In any business labor is the number 1 cost. Materials and facilities not so much. I always offer the auto industry, some guy getting $35/hr to bolt seats in a Chevy!

Add the fringes to that Chevy assembler and that rate more than doubles to $74/hr.  That's the real cost attached to the vehicle. 

  • Like 2
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Captain Clark said:

Bottom line numbers management should be pushed to the top of your list perhaps. Out of touch greed and profit targets at the corporate level have  butchered Colt... Remington.... etc. There are many other companies to numerous to mention outside the firearms industry that have suffered the same fate!

If labor is the boogie man, how can a company like Ruger survive and flourish in today’s market, selling USA made products?

I’ve seen it first hand, usually it’s the work force holding the sinking ship together at the end, damn sure it’s not managers!

Ruger in Prescott, AZ pays $12 an hour plus benefits. Unfortunately, the housing market here requires a wage three times that. My wife used to work there and applied again last month, interviewed, and got an offer for production work. Luckily, she was offered a desk job for $4 more on the hour with much better benefits at another company right after.

Link to post
Share on other sites

seems to be the trend these days , i have lots of mixed emotions on these sales but i guess its the way of life 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Captain Clark said:

Bottom line numbers management should be pushed to the top of your list perhaps. Out of touch greed and profit targets at the corporate level have  butchered Colt... Remington.... etc. There are many other companies to numerous to mention outside the firearms industry that have suffered the same fate!

If labor is the boogie man, how can a company like Ruger survive and flourish in today’s market, selling USA made products?

I’ve seen it first hand, usually it’s the work force holding the sinking ship together at the end, damn sure it’s not managers!

Both Remington and Colt have had some bad management decisions, but bringing in the VCs were the worst.  Business history is full of failures where VCs buy into a company because of its heritage, then demand changes that destroy that heritage then wonder why they failed.  I've worked with several.  They can be tone deaf to the company culture.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

And Marlin and Winchester and Western and Peters and Ithaca and Charles Daly and Iver Johnson and ..... the list goes on.

 

Firearms brands usually need 10 years (or more) of great engineering and operation to prove themselves.   Not everyone runs out and buys a first-year production firearm from a new company.  It takes years to build reputation, but unfortunately only a few months of producing a poor quality or over-priced or clunky gun to destroy a reputation in the firearms world.

 

Good luck, GJ

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

If "VC" is the acronym for "Vulture Capitalist", then indeed you can lay the carved up carcass of the US's oldest firearms mfg at their feet.  The VC that created Remington before the two bankruptcies made sure they got paid before anybody else.  They burdened Remington with the debt they used to purchase Remington.  The debt burden was so high that even when sales were increasing Remington couldn't pay debt service. 

6 hours ago, McCandless said:

 

+1  

Colt has made one series of mis-steps after the other.  Late in 2019 they suspended civilian sales of the AR-15.   One year later they could have sold every AR they were capable of producing as gun sales rocketed.  Colt semi-auto pistols of any size or caliber?  They were hard to find before 2020... impossible to find new at all around here. 

The new-buyer civilian market wants semi-auto compact 9mm's.  Colt had nothing to offer.   Single Action Army?  USFA showed what could be done. 

Snake-series wheelguns and police/military contracts for M-16s are not going to keep the company afloat, when the military is looking for their next-gen battle rifle and police departments are having their budgets cut. 

CZ probably wants Colt wheel guns & Colt name.  Government sales of AR's is a low bid business; so, unless CZ can ring cost out of the product it is a very low profit business.  To ring profits out of the Colt name in the civilian market they would be better off contacting another mfg to make AR's.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

But if making AR’ s cover the fixed costs, the the other products can handle the profits. It is all about product mix. And right now the wheel gun market seems to be where they should concentrate on with regards to increase production as well as adding some others to the catalog. I also believe that if they brought back the Colt Cadet .22 it will also fly off the shelves. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Ozark Shark said:

Both Remington and Colt have had some bad management decisions, but bringing in the VCs were the worst.  Business history is full of failures where VCs buy into a company because of its heritage, then demand changes that destroy that heritage then wonder why they failed.  I've worked with several.  They can be tone deaf to the company culture.

Correct......Bad management! The VC have no regard for anything other than squeezing the very last dime out of a business’s past legacy! 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

IF CZ did buy COLT and made them in their own country, I wonder if it would make it easier for the anti-gunners to get a ban on the importation of firearms than it would be to stop production from a manufacturer that is in-country.  Just a crazy thought.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Did I say anything about who was the cause of labor cost issues? No!. In any business labor is the number 1 cost. Materials and facilities not so much. I always offer the auto industry, some guy getting $35/hr to bolt seats in a Chevy!

No you did not. You did mention US labor rather than just labor. I was merely adding another option for discussion  as to what takes place when these acquisitions occur! 
 

As for the “ some guy”  making $35 an hour to bolt in seats,  management agreed to that in contract negotiations. I can’t remember ever hearing anybody in any line of work reject pay increases when offered, no matter how out of sight! The auto industry has been notorious for bad leadership for decades. I’m thankful my career was not in the auto industry, certainly lots of stress and uncertainty! :(
 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

If CZ did end up with Colt, I wonder if they'll go to the 3 click safety and/or the long base pin safety like in Uberti's? I've got 4 SAA's and a King Cobra that's good for now. I guess we'll see................

Link to post
Share on other sites

Given bad management, lack of new products, depending on military contracts to survive and labor costs, I'm surprised Colt is still in business.  CZ buying them would probably be a good thing, but it's likely that they will move the machinery out of Connecticut to either to the CZ facilities in Missouri or to the Dan Wesson facilities in New York

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is fashionable to bash venture capitalists but some decaying bodies cannot be brought back to life, and were rotting long before the VCs tried to resuscitate them with an infusion of dollars, often coupled with management control in order to see that their investment was not completely wasted by the same people who've  already run the companies into the ground.  Colt was on life support from the moment they lost the M4 contract in 2013, and that had absolutely nothing to do with VCs.  And don't forget that without VCs, highly successful companies such as Mobileye, Semiconductor Manufacturing International (SMIC), Genentech, Google, Acerta Pharma, Spotify, Uber, Airbnb, the list is endless, would not exist.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe they will lower the price of the single action revolvers where the average Joe might almost be able to afford one let alone two.

 

They would sell a bunch just based on the Colt Name.

Edited by Frontier Lone Rider, SASS# 73063
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Captain Clark said:

As for the “ some guy”  making $35 an hour to bolt in seats,  management agreed to that in contract negotiations. I can’t remember ever hearing anybody in any line of work reject pay increases when offered, no matter how out of sight! The auto industry has been notorious for bad leadership for decades. I’m thankful my career was not in the auto industry, certainly lots of stress and uncertainty

I remember strike after strike by the UAW. Raise our pay and our benefits or we walk. And they did walk. Costing the companies millions in lost revenue and increased operating costs. So the leadership of the big 3 didn't hand out raise because they were being nice. They were forced to. It wasn't contract negotiations. It was extortion.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Quality control. I've heard cowboys say Colt quality wasn't what it used to be. Meaning the working line and management didn't care.

 

So tell me why the Italian clones are well built, last a long time, and are almost an exact replica of a Colt, but cost  almost 70% less? Lower labor and operating costs. Colt did it to themselves. Spending $XXXXX, having to wait months to get one, and then the quality was so, so.   Otherwise we'd all be shooting Colts.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Quality control. I've heard cowboys say Colt quality wasn't what it used to be. Meaning the working line and management didn't care.

 

So tell me why the Italian clones are well built, last a long time, and are almost an exact replica of a Colt, but cost  almost 70% less? Lower labor and operating costs. Colt did it to themselves. Spending $XXXXX, having to wait months to get one, and then the quality was so, so.   Otherwise we'd all be shooting Colts.

I have 4 of them. Three 3rd gens and one 2nd gen. They're parts are harder and I've had very little problems with Colts over the years. Uberti's are fine which I have also but Colts seem to stand up better. If CZ buys them I hope they keep the quality the same as I have experienced. It would be nice to lower the price on the SAA but I doubt that'll happen!

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I have 4 of them. Three 3rd gens and one 2nd gen. They're parts are harder and I've had very little problems with Colts over the years. Uberti's are fine which I have also but Colts seem to stand up better. If CZ buys them I hope they keep the quality the same as I have experienced. It would be nice to lower the price on the SAA but I doubt that'll happen!

 

I think I could live with the price if they'd just make them available.  1-20 years is longer than I'm going to wait.

Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Rye are the Colts $1800 better?

I wouldn't say that but they are better. Are they overpriced ? Oh yes certainly,  but I'm not defending their prices. BTW I paid less than that for my Colts, all used except for one that was NIB unfired and that was less than $1800.00. I bought it from a cowboy on this wire.

Edited by Rye Miles #13621
Link to post
Share on other sites

Move Colt to Texas, it just seems right...

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, DeaconKC said:

Move Colt to Texas, it just seems right...

Ohio is just as gun friendly as Texas and it’s closer to Connecticut!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Recently Chrysler (and the other automakers) became known as insurance companies that also made some cars and trucks.

 

We need a balance of responsibility between management and workers.  Workers should be paid according to the value of their production.

Companies should price accordingly.

 

For a classic study of good business sense mixed with effective  concern for the entire community, check out the Bible's guidance for farmers in the Old Testament.  A fascinating and ingenious optimization of labor, production and community. 

 

Lev 23: 7 & 22

 

7 - Don't overwork your workers

 

22 ‘When you reap the harvest of your land, moreover, you shall not reap to the very corners of your field nor gather the gleaning of your harvest; you are to leave them for the needy and the alien. I am the LORD your God.’"

 

Allow those who can to gather their own food for their livelihood and their self respect.

 

Neither greed or sloth.

Edited by Marauder SASS #13056
Addition
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.