Sarge 413 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Like everyone else, we are experiencing a major shortage of factory ammo and primers. Had a discussion with my local gun shop. They told me they were advised by their distributors that all of the ammo in the pipeline has been spoken for and not to expect any shipments until September 2021. The shortage has a huge impact on our shooters that don't reload, but even those who are unable to locate primers are affected. For the coming season, have clubs considered making any consideration at the club level for this shortage? Anyone considering allowing use of only one pistol or use of .22 pistols? If so, are you making any scoring modifications? For example, if the shooter is only using one pistol, are they being assessed a 25 second penalty per stage for 5 unfired rounds? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rattlesnake Slim 323 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I would rather see four-stage matches. I think I would prefer saving ammo that way to changing the game. Just my 2 cents. 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
irish ike, SASS #43615 1,253 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 watching the videos from the late 90's they shot one pistol and one stage the rifle shot 5! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cypress Sun 3,116 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I wouldn't attend a four stage match. Not worth the drive time or gas money for me. If it came to .22's as a separate category with no overall match consideration or a four stage match.....I'd go with the .22's. 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DeaconKC 2,195 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Maybe one or two stages 22s and the rest one handgun? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Three Foot Johnson 2,612 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 My average drive to a match is probably around a hundred miles each way. Allowing .22's is fine with me , and, rimfire or centerfire, I can weather the shortage for several years, but if a club cuts back to 4 stages or drops one sixgun... I'm likely to stay home. 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Kloehr 1,107 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 My preference would be to come half as often rather than shoot half the stages. Or whatever split is proposed, ie 2/3. Drive time, entry fees, cleaning up the guns afterwards, etc. Yes I still want to hang out with everyone, but would then still rather have half the people for twice as long. My vote at any club would be full matches less often if ammo was my constraint. But the drive time does not get cut by half, nor would I expect the entry fee to be cut by half (minor issue compared to drive time, same net for the club either way). And so on. For those that have (otherwise) SASS legal .22lr firearms, I have no objection to allowing them in any category until the market gets sane again. I don't have such firearms. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vidette 81 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Imagine that things continue like this for another two years or more . The game has to evolve or it will become obsolete. Perhaps offering shooters options for fewer stages, different calibers, and things like speed matches with fewer guns and/or ammo, are all ideas that are worth considering. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 839 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 At the local level, there is no constraint on the club, except for what the shooters want. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waimea 815 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I'm shooting .22s. So far the only one at my club. I wish I hadn't sold the Henry .22 I bought from Col. Thomas 10 years ago. I paid $80 for it. Anyhow, I will share my .22s with anyone that wants to shoot them in Punta Gorda Florida next week. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
J-BAR #18287 6,283 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I think State level championships and above should be shot as they always have. Monthly matches? Anything goes. 8 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bailey Creek,5759 166 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Have you seen the video on making primers out of you old ones ? Its on utube . Very interesting . 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dantankerous 4,448 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 I have plenty of ammo but I'm still not going to shoot it. Either way my stage times are going up. Having ammo and not wanting to shoot it is going to be the same as not having ammo and can't shoot. Oh and by the way… when I say I have plenty of ammo I only shoot four monthlies per year anyway so that is my metric. About a year ago I took up a new hobby and it doesn't cost anything. More naps and longer naps. 3 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sarge 413 Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 Great discussion guys. I agree, If I was driving a distance, I would not want to shoot fewer stages. I also agree that these modifications should only be made for club level matches. What kind of rule mods are clubs making with the .22s? Are those shooters in a separate category? Are they eligible for overall? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dantankerous 4,448 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) I am however in agreement with not wanting to drive any distance for fewer stages. If anything, add stages to one monthly and drop the entire 2nd monthly. If weather permits. Edited January 10 by Dantankerous 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sedalia Dave 13,583 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said: At the local level, there is no constraint on the club, except for what the shooters want. THIS^^^^^ Its your club. Set up a few new categories. The membership can set the particulars. You don't need anyone's blessing but the club membership. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sarge 413 Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 Just now, Sedalia Dave said: THIS^^^^^ Its your club. Set up a few new categories. The membership can set the particulars. You don't need anyone's blessing but the club membership. Yes, I understand this. I was just curious as to what other clubs may be doing. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dantankerous 4,448 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) Without trying to establish a monopoly on this thread another idea might be to do a lot more shotgun shooting per stage. I know some people hate the shotgun ( I am guessing everyone hates being out of ammo) but it seems like shotgun ammo is still fairly available for those who shoot factory. Maybe on every other stage drop one handgun and triple or quintuple the shotgun targets. Or something to that effect… Quite possibly drop a revolver but add a rim fire on the stage... Just throwing out idears. Edited January 10 by Dantankerous 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ozark Shark 435 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 33 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said: I think State level championships and above should be shot as they always have. Monthly matches? Anything goes. Agreed, and I'm sure that's what we will do at SMR, if needed. For monthly matches, run what you have. Maybe we need a Senior Buckaroo class. 2 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sarge 413 Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 16 minutes ago, Bailey Creek,5759 said: Have you seen the video on making primers out of you old ones ? Its on utube . Very interesting . I saw one where the guy was using cap gun caps. Was not impressed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rye Miles #13621 6,815 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) I’ve got enough primers etc for this upcoming season which would be 4 matches a month for 8 months. I won’t be doing 4 matches a month I’ll cut down some and maybe only do one 3 day. It all depends on what happens with the supply chain. I’m not opposed to shooting.22’s for a match or two in fact in might be fun. I've got a Heritage .22 and a Henry rifle in .22, good excuse to buy another .22, maybe a Wrangler or another Heritage. I don’t like the idea of Cutting down on stages too far to go I’ll stay home! Edited January 10 by Rye Miles #13621 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waimea 815 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) Since I was the only one, the category was Outlaw Buckaroo. I don't know if they scored me with the main match. It didn't matter to me one way or another. Edited January 10 by Waimea 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
doc roy l. pain 499 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 I wouldn’t limit the number of stages. I would suggest writing stages like the old days and varying rifle rounds. It hasn’t always been 10-10-4. Try 6-9 rounds per rifle on stages. Maybe 1 stage where you only use 1 pistol and you use it from a staged position. I know it doesn’t sound like much of an adjustment, but it can save you 20 or so rounds a match 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
irish ike, SASS #43615 1,253 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 We call our 22's an "open" category. 22 pistols single action, rifles lever and pump. Any year or style. What about main match 1 pistol, rifle 5 rounds, 2 shotgun. 5-5-2. Half the rounds used normally 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Original Lumpy Gritz 7,477 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 2 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said: I think State level championships and above should be shot as they always have. Monthly matches? Anything goes. IIRC, Bear Creek is allowing 22's now. Might bring our 9422 XTR the next time we shoot. OLG 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Hills Barb 422 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) El Posse Grande will be allowing the use of 22s. Rules and categories are not finalized. Whether it's one 22 or 2 22 pistols and a 22 rifle, the shooter will fall into the 22 categories. Other than that we still have work to do in determining the rest. It is our hope that by offering this at monthly matches, it might enable folks to attend state, regional, national and EOT shoots. Edited January 10 by Black Hills Barb 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bitterroot Jak 43 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 We now allow rimfire 22s, single action pistols, lever or pump rifles. This is a Rimfire 22 category. Their scores are not included in the overall match. We feel it is more important to keep our members involved in the sport than losing them. In these trying times we all have to make adjustments. Memphis Gunslingers Bitterroot Jak 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DeaconKC 2,195 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 I guess I'm gonna have to find some Ruger Wranglers or Heritage 22s to go with my Henry .22. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crisco 96 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Even pre- covid we allow .22s all winter and pretty much whenever. I did catch some flak for burning up subsonic ammo on a rifle last stage last month... had to reshoot it, as they weren’t willing to give me the 9 second time for the stage. Woulda owned that stage... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Go West 419 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 I don't own a single .22............................. I don't relish the idea of purchasing them when I prefer center fire arms of various types. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Talon MaCleod 6 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 I've been an active member since 2000 . I have asked this question a lot lately. I have friends in the ammo trade (manufacturer ) they shake their heads and will not give answers. I don`t think we will see a wholesale return to what we feel is normal . As for reduction of rounds sent down range? I intend to continue to shoot until I am out of a particular type ,That in all likelihood will be shotgun ( sometime in Fall .) Then access situation and decide if this run is up. I will continue efforts to restock and will adhere to the club decisions at the two clubs i shoot with . 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Palmetto Traveller 181 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 We had this discussion at our last monthly. The general consensus is to allow 22s in a category called Elder Buckaroo / Buckarette. They would score the same as anyone else and we as match directors would have to make sure any rifle / pistol knockdowns could be accomplished with 22s. That being said in our neck of the woods we cannot even get factory SG ammo or primers and many of our shooters either do not have 22 cal firearms or ammo so for them they're gonna run out either way and this option is moot. I do like the idea of having a stage where the shooter could use one of their pistols and one 22 staged gun or reducing rifle rounds here or there. I do not like the idea of only shooting 4 stages and wouldn't make that 1 to 1.5 hour trip for it. I typically shoot every weekend but will probably drop one match per month initially and maybe another as things progress. I'll shoot as long as I can even if it's with 22s. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bgavin 1,610 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 IMO, the ammo and component shortage will not end in the foreseeable future. I am quite reluctant to spend down supplies that I cannot replenish. With that in mine, I contacted one of the match directors, and he is OK with 22s. I have a pair of Single Six Bisley and Henry Frontier I can use. Gun Club shotshells are more readily available. A match for me is a round trip of 60 miles, 90 minutes, fuel and fees. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caprock Kid 5 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Writing stages for our matches so shooter could shoot either full rounds (10) or reduced (5). Accommodates those that feel anything less then 100(+) rounds a match isn't worth it and those who were running low on ammo/reloading, - Reduced Round shooters shoot 1 sweep vice 2 or single tap vice double tab. - To make the shooter do a transition on pistols, stage instructions direct shooter to load at least 1 round in one pistol and remaining rounds in second ( 1/4, 2/3 , 3/2 or 4/1). Shooter has to pay attention to indexing cylinder at the loading table. Gunfighters can still shoot as long as they load pistols 2/3 or 3/2. - TO and counters are informed that shooter is reduced rounds so they won't be confused as a misfire/squib. - Rifle is reduced rounds as well. - Separate 'write-in' category such as "Forty-niner/RR". .22's have been allowed for those who want to shoot them since ammo shortage. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vidette 81 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Caprock, how do you handle scoring for “full” vs “reduced” shooters? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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