SASS in the Past

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

5 rifle shots. And nary a short stroked rifle in the bunch. One of the TO's did say 'we have a small posse so everyone needs to help'. Woman at the loading table was counting misses.  Fun stuff.

So far:

You don't have to shoot both pistols

You don't have to load 10 in the rifle.

10/10/4 Hah!

 

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

5 rifle shots. And nary a short stroked rifle in the bunch. One of the TO's did say 'we have a small posse so everyone needs to help'. Woman at the loading table was counting misses.  Fun stuff.

So far:

You don't have to shoot both pistols

You don't have to load 10 in the rifle.

10/10/4 Hah!

 

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

When I first started 20 years ago every stage had a narrative to it. YOu've just been stopped by masked bandits etc.

One stage had a rail fence and you had to lay on the ground and shoot your rifle through the rails. Now I'd take the 10 misses! Once I'm down I ain't getting up easy.

Sitting at a card table with a plywood character across from you, buzzer goes and you shoot two pocket pistol rounds through the card cheater

Running, hah, with a bag of money, doll, mannequin.

Stages with 25 shotgun rounds. BP shooters, me, burned a few fingers.

Tomahawks, roping, axes.

Now its 10/10/4 18 seconds, not me,  next shooter

[Tequila Shooter]

Maybe the future should be a little bit of a mix of the past with what we’re doing now.  With the 2 big matches moving next year what if in OKC there was a mini-convention at the beginning or end?  If it was before the shoot then the whole event would wind up to be 1 week, say Sunday, Monday, Tuesday convention with guest speakers and clinics, Wednesday could be Waddie Day for anyone willing to help out and then end the week with the shoot.  Throw in a social night and you got the makings of some good stuff.

 

As Rainmaker said “Too many times, those saying "we don't do this" or "we should do that" are not DOING anything other than showing up. Get involved and enjoy what we have.”  I’ve always found that if you set the example people will follow.  Whether you’re an emissary of the game and your club, go out and build new targets or props or write stages everything we do to help the game helps all of us.  My club was short on TO’s so I made sure that I took the RO2 class last year so I could help out.  As my sea daddy used to tell me “If you’re not part of the solution you’re part of the problem”

[Cholla]

The Golden Days that you remember fondly are alive and well at NCOWS matches. Don't get me wrong as I love SASS but I also loved NCOWS. It is everything you miss about the old days of SASS. Rifle targets were up to 75 yards away. We had moving targets both side to side and moving away. Nothing is short-stoked. But, no fantasy guns are allowed either. No Ruger Bisleys, no Colt clones with octagon barrels, no Henry Big Boys, no gun carts unless you had a physical need for one. The unapproved list is long. 

I read so much of you mocking NCOWS and yet you lament the loss of something that still exists in many states. I was hoping to start an NCOWS club in Prescott, but so far I have not found enough support for it. There was talk of starting one near Tombstone but that's  a heck of a drive for me.

They also have a yearly convention with classes, balls, and vendors. I suspect once COVID has passed they will come back.

[Buckshot Sheridan]

4 minutes ago, Cholla said:

The Golden Days that you remember fondly are alive and well at NCOWS matches. Don't get me wrong as I love SASS but I also loved NCOWS. It is everything you miss about the old days of SASS. Rifle targets were up to 75 yards away. We had moving targets both side to side and moving away. Nothing is short-stoked. But, no fantasy guns are allowed either. No Ruger Bisleys, no Colt clones with octagon barrels, no Henry Big Boys, no gun carts unless you had a physical need for one. The unapproved list is long. 

I read so much of you mocking NCOWS and yet you lament the loss of something that still exists in many states. I was hoping to start an NCOWS club in Prescott, but so far I have not found enough support for it. There was talk of starting one near Tombstone but that's  a heck of a drive for me.

They also have a yearly convention with classes, balls, and vendors. I suspect once COVID has passed they will come back.

I’d be interested in getting together with NCOWS in either location. I’m right between them. 

[Griff]

18 minutes ago, Buckshot Sheridan said:

I’d be interested in getting together with NCOWS in either location. I’m right between them. 

Better "un-short stroke" your rifle.

[Cholla]

7 minutes ago, Griff said:

Better "un-short stroke" your rifle.

I have multiple rifles and pistols. Some tricked out and some original. I used to shoot SASS and NCOWS every month.

[Cholla]

38 minutes ago, Buckshot Sheridan said:

I’d be interested in getting together with NCOWS in either location. I’m right between them. 

I sent you a PM.

[Griff]

47 minutes ago, Cholla said:

I have multiple rifles and pistols. Some tricked out and some original. I used to shoot SASS and NCOWS every month.

Okay, but not every one knows that quirk of NCOWS.  And I try to post with information that will be of use to anyone reading it.

[Cholla]

3 minutes ago, Griff said:

Okay, but not every one knows that quirk of NCOWS.  And I try to post with information that will be of use to anyone reading it.

You are absolutely correct. SASS and NCOWS are different in many ways and the same in many ways. Before plunging in, interested folks should fully read and understand the NCOWS Tally Book. Another quirk is no Buscadero holsters. NCOWS is not for everyone.

http://ncows.com/library/pdf/2020NCOWSTallyBook.pdf

 

[Buckshot Sheridan]

10 hours ago, Griff said:

Better "un-short stroke" your rifle.

Mine aren’t short stroked, nothing beyond basic polishing and deburing on mine.  I also run BP loads as close to the originals as I can get while keeping them within SASS limits. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

16 hours ago, Cholla said:

You are absolutely correct. SASS and NCOWS are different in many ways and the same in many ways. Before plunging in, interested folks should fully read and understand the NCOWS Tally Book. Another quirk is no Buscadero holsters. NCOWS is not for everyone.

http://ncows.com/library/pdf/2020NCOWSTallyBook.pdf

 

WOW, looks like more categories than SASS 

OLG 

[Yul Lose]

18 hours ago, Cholla said:

You are absolutely correct. SASS and NCOWS are different in many ways and the same in many ways. Before plunging in, interested folks should fully read and understand the NCOWS Tally Book. Another quirk is no Buscadero holsters. NCOWS is not for everyone.

http://ncows.com/library/pdf/2020NCOWSTallyBook.pdf

 

It definitely ain’t for me. Every gun that I use for SASS is prohibited as is all of my leather, footwear, etc... 

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

I'll stick with SASS and help run our matches and club shoots with some narratives and other actions and the fun stuff of 20 years ago.

I also kinda despair when the loudest thing I hear is a TINK on steel and no BANG before it.

Shooters using their Glocks etc on other shooting bays came over to ask if some people were using BB guns.

Now, those using Holy Black leave no doubt about the seriousness of their loads.

Gotta admire them!

[Tequila Shooter]

@Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474  I hope your one of the loud and proud and not one that goes “TINK” 

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

I am sir.

Note, that I am a WARTHOG

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

The Boom and the Clang with my loads Are Right close together on my full case loads of Goex .... And the Bay tends to cloud up rather sudden When I shoot ..

My .44 spl. Revolvers  Clock over 900 fps. and My .38 WCF Clocks over 1,250 fps ..... In my 66

And up here We still do most of the things You All,  Pine For from the past .....

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

At one of away shoots I attended on the first stage there were  5 rifle targets that the order was to sweep them twice from either end , well the call was two misses ...

Two of the spotters agreed that I missed the second target on each sweep , the other spotter called it Clean.  I told the two to count the targets , surprise there were only 4 targets standing ,,,, I then explained what had happened, on the first sweep my second shot hit and knocked down target two and the second time sweeping the targets I shot in the space where target two used to be standing . after much discussion  and the TO stepping-up in support the call along with at least 4 possie members , they conceeded that I might have shot it clean ...

 

Jabez Cowboy  

[Tequila Shooter]

15 minutes ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

At one of away shoots I attended on the first stage there were  5 rifle targets that the order was to sweep them twice from either end , well the call was two misses ...

Two of the spotters agreed that I missed the second target on each sweep , the other spotter called it Clean.  I told the two to count the targets , surprise there were only 4 targets standing ,,,, I then explained what had happened, on the first sweep my second shot hit and knocked down target two and the second time sweeping the targets I shot in the space where target two used to be standing . after much discussion  and the TO stepping-up in support the call along with at least 4 possie members , they conceeded that I might have shot it clean ...

 

Jabez Cowboy  

 

Sounds like the right call

[Tequila Shooter]

I’m going to get this train back on the tracks, I’m very surprised that my thoughts on a mini convention in 2022 didn’t get more traction.  I’d have thought senior members would’ve liked a little of the past to come back, and newer members to get to go to a major event and get the added benefit of classes and guest speakers.  It’s my hope that high ranking members of SASS will consider this idea.

[Tyrel Cody]

1 hour ago, Tequila Shooter said:

I’m going to get this train back on the tracks, I’m very surprised that my thoughts on a mini convention in 2022 didn’t get more traction.  I’d have thought senior members would’ve liked a little of the past to come back, and newer members to get to go to a major event and get the added benefit of classes and guest speakers.  It’s my hope that high ranking members of SASS will consider this idea.

 

I'd suggest sending an email to Misty with that idea: misty@sassnet.com

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Conventions were a fair jaunt away and the cost was more than I could afford , with up to 2 kids at a time  in university ...

About the time of the last one in Vegas I was thinking ,,,, about the cheap flights there ..... but that never got past the thinking stage ...

Too bad really,,, Finally Got to WR for the 25th.

But all this is Long Range For Me ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Yul Lose]

1 hour ago, Tequila Shooter said:

I’m going to get this train back on the tracks, I’m very surprised that my thoughts on a mini convention in 2022 didn’t get more traction.  I’d have thought senior members would’ve liked a little of the past to come back, and newer members to get to go to a major event and get the added benefit of classes and guest speakers.  It’s my hope that high ranking members of SASS will consider this idea.

With EOT and other large matches being cancelled, SASS is probably not going to spring for a major money losing event anytime soon and conventions did lose money. It’s a good idea but expensive to put on.

[Tequila Shooter]

2 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

With EOT and other large matches being cancelled, SASS is probably not going to spring for a major money losing event anytime soon and conventions did lose money. It’s a good idea but expensive to put on.

 

I can see how that would be a money looser by the time you rent the space and all.  My thought was that it could be held at the range if it’s too expensive to have it at say the Cowboy Hall of Fame or another venue.  I hope by then COVID is a thing of the past, and it might even bring more shooters in when they know that there’ll be more to the trip than just a well run match.  But I can see your point as to why SASS would hesitate to try it.

[Sedalia Dave]

2 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

With EOT and other large matches being cancelled, SASS is probably not going to spring for a major money losing event anytime soon and conventions did lose money. It’s a good idea but expensive to put on.

 

Conventions don't have to be a money looser. You have to know how to book them properly. If you don't, the venue will take you to the cleaners.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

On 1/6/2021 at 6:51 PM, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Conventions don't have to be a money looser. You have to know how to book them properly. If you don't, the venue will take you to the cleaners.

I second this a friend of mine made a career of booking Conventions for folks, and Not a one of them lost money ... But you have to have the connections , Drive and Savvy to do so ...

He retired at the age of 55 so he didn't do so badly for himself either .... 

 

Jabez Cowboy 

[Hill Beachy, SASS #5327]

The first club at which I started shooting CAS matches had been formed only a couple of months earlier.  Normal match attendance was around  eight shooters and ten or twelve was a good turnout.  We actually used a stopwatch to time the stages, because no one had a timer!  Most of the members had come over from Rendezvous, so we probably could have used a sundial just as well.      This was in early 1995.  Things have changed a bit since then. 

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

From my recollections of past discussions about future conventions with folks, I'm just not sure there is a big enough interest.  The demographics of the shooters of today has shifted away from "Living The Cowboy Life" to "Shootin' In Cowboy Clothes".  It has become more about the competition part than the Cowboy part.  SASS even tried to accommodate those folks by having the Wax Bullet matches and Cowboy Fast Draw competitions at the conventions.  (I doubt the Riv ever got the wax out of the carpets, probably why they tore it down  ).  For the folks that wanted the shooting part, it didn't seem to satisfy their desires, they'd rather spend their money on a trip to EOT or Winter Range.

 

I think you can see the change to the demographic in a lot of ways.  Regional matches would typically be 350-400 shooters, Winter Range is/was 800+ shooters, and EOT more than that (I think) before the move to New Mexico.  Matches sold out months in advance, and there was always a waiting list.  What a lot of folks don't realize is that having shooter register early has a HUGE impact on match quality.  If you know you are going to sell out, you know up front how much money you (as a match director) have to put into the match.  The quality of Awards improves, the quality of the extra curricular activities improves, heck even the quality of the food improves.  When folks wait until the last minute as seems to have become the norm these days, there is no way to go out and spend money you don't have on things you might need in the hopes they folks will come.  That is a recipe for disappointment and disaster.

 

On the flip side, if you play it too cautions, and you sell out the week before cutoff, there is typically no time to arrange all of the things you would like to do in the last couple of weeks.  Reservations for places to eat, for the "Big Tent" etcetera, are typically not something that can be done on the fly.  Yes, sometimes you get lucky, but more often than not, it doesn't end well.

 

Another thing that I have witnessed is that folks used to hang out after the shooting ended for the day for hours and hours talking and laughing about the days triumphs or tragedies.  There would be big bonfires, pot-luck dinners, music, etc, again celebrating "The Lifestyle".  I don't see that as much anymore, although the campers still seem to do that pretty well. Maybe it was just because there used to be a lot more campers than there are now.  Now days, folks generally like to shoot, pack-up, head home, and get ready for the next days shoot.  (Of course, it may just be that we are all older now and need a NAP!

 

Could a SASS Convention still be a success today?  Probably, given the right venue in the right location and at the right time of year, but no place or time will be right for everyone.  And no matter what, it likely won't be a cheap to attend, that's just the world we live in today I think.  For us Las Vegas was good because my wife has fond memories of spending time there with her Father every year for about a decade after her Mother passed.  The other places were nice too, and we did enjoy every one, but for a lot of reasons, Las Vegas is hard to beat.  The only other place I could see with similar infrastructure would be Orlando, Florida.  Cheap airfare, a BaZillion places to stay, and lots of large venues to hold the event.  They could have it in January and the attraction of visiting Florida in the Winter is as good as gold.  Plus, there are lots of other activities so a weekend Convention could be part of a Family Vacation trip, although that gets harder when there are school age children are at home.  That is what kept us from shooting in Florida until 2007 when we attended our "First" Last Stand.  It was in early January and with both kids out of high-school and on College semester break, we could make it happen.

 

Anyway, I would certainly be interested in looking at attending another Convention, but it will be hard to top what used to be,  and even for me used to be wasn't as good as really, really, used to be!  But we will have to wait and see what direction SASS HQ takes things in the years ahead.  At the moment, pursuing a new "Non-Shooting" event seems unlikely, but who knows.  Until then, try going to one of the "Big Matches", a Regional or Above.  They typically have many of the things you found at the Conventions (RO Classes, Dances, Banquets, and a few Seminars) but are attached to a shooting match so they cover both ends of the spectrum.

 

Just my $0.02, which won't even pay the plastic bag tax up here in the land of crazies.

 

Dogmeat

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

28 minutes ago, Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L said:

...  Until then, try going to one of the "Big Matches", a Regional or Above.  They typically have many of the things you found at the Conventions (RO Classes, Dances, Banquets, and a few Seminars) but are attached to a shooting match so they cover both ends of the spectrum....

 

They also have entertainment and more vendors than the convention.  Just be prepared for weather!

[Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728]

Dear Sedalia Dave.  Loved the video of Comancheria Days.  Best part was seeing the Confederate mounted shooters!!!!!   With all the Confederate statues being destroyed by the left wingnut, socialist idiots who have voting rites, this video warms my heart.

[Sedalia Dave]

1 hour ago, Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 said:

Dear Sedalia Dave.  Loved the video of Comancheria Days.  Best part was seeing the Confederate mounted shooters!!!!!   With all the Confederate statues being destroyed by the left wingnut, socialist idiots who have voting rites, this video warms my heart.

 

Thanks. I saw those videos about 5 years ago.  Took me over an hour to relocate them so that I could share them again. 

[Tequila Shooter]

@Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L the reasons you gave are exactly why I thought that attaching a mini-convention with Land Run in 2022 would be something that wouldn't involve additional travel just a few days longer to folks that wanted to go to a convention.  Of course all my speculation is just that, speculation, I don’t have any influence with SASS or Land Run and there are many reasons that either wouldn’t want the additional work involved.