Grinch Moderators

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

They deleted the Christmas Whiner List thread even though it was getting a lot of interesting posts.

[J-BAR #18287]

I guess when a moderator whines, posts go away!

 

[Tyrel Cody]

Huh, 

?

[Black Hills Barb]

It's not deleted.  It's just in the Saloon now.  You can enjoy a beer or some wine while you whine.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

The Saloon?  The post was about guns.  No one reads the Saloon.  Functional equivalent of being deleted.  If the moderators want to kill a thread that is a good place to move it.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

2 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

The Saloon?  The post was about guns.  No one reads the Saloon.  Functional equivalent of being deleted.  If the moderators want to kill a thread that is a good place to move it.

 

Are you 'whining' about your post being moved?   

If you are, you need to go to the Saloon and put it on the 'Whiners'  thread..... 

 

..........Widder

 

[John Kloehr]

With all due respect for the question, if I were a moderator, I'd have done the same. If this forum software supported it, I would have left a redirect expiring in a week or so.

 

If any of the intended results of any of the whines include a desire for serious consideration for a change, that would not be the thread I would choose to present my argument. Reference my own posts above where I backed out of further whining context for a serious question; someday I might have a serious question about it, but only after I understand related history and reasoning.

[Krazy Kajun]

Wah wah wah wah 

 

Joyeux Noel y’all,

Kajun

[Snakebite]

14 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

The Saloon?  The post was about guns.  No one reads the Saloon.  Functional equivalent of being deleted.  If the moderators want to kill a thread that is a good place to move it.

I thought that the post had many references that were most certainly pertinent to the game. People were light heartedly venting about rules that they felt effected what they wanted, and would like changed. Yes, some of them were just Baloney, but a great many of them were REAL. With all the controversy and upset people over this Fiber Magazine tube ruling  I thought that the thread was dead on in making the point that EVERYONE has something that they would like changed. If it only takes one person whining, like the Mag tube, then their gripes should be just as valid and just as important to hear and certainly just as relevant to the Game as at lest half of the post on the SASS wire.  JMO.   

 

Snakebite

[Chas B. Wolfson, SASS #11104]

11 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

The Saloon?  The post was about guns.  No one reads the Saloon.  Functional equivalent of being deleted.  If the moderators want to kill a thread that is a good place to move it.

 Just go put your frozen turkey dinner in the toaster oven.

Chas B 

[Dantankerous]

 Just curious...

 

How many moderators are there?  Can just one moderator delete something or do they have to have a conference and vote or at least reach a consensus that something is delete worth?

 

Who moderates the moderators?

 

If, like a sports referee, a moderator makes a bad call can it be overturned? And if so then what?

 

 

 

 

[Matthew Duncan]

14 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

They deleted the Christmas Whiner List thread even though it was getting a lot of interesting posts.

 

Fact Checkers have determine this post is not entirely true...

 

 

 

My attempt to be humorous 

[Snakebite]

Next day observation: I took a closer look at the original thread. Approx 70% of the comments posted on that thread were totally on point and in my view very important. If I were still on the ROC I would have been glued to the thread to see what issues members were concerned or unhappy about, after all the job is to Serve the membership. A large number of people were looking at and following that thread. In fairness to the Moderators, whom I consider do a overall good job, the thread had started to drift, but it was of such importance that I would have let it drift for just a while longer to see if it would get back on topic and then just shut it down if it did not. Moving it to the Saloon just virtually removes it from the majority of those that visit the SASS wire. They just look at the first page of the wire and then move on.  

 

Snakebite

[DeaconKC]

1 hour ago, Dantankerous said:

 Just curious...

 

How many moderators are there?  Can just one moderator delete something or do they have to have a conference and vote or at least reach a consensus that something is delete worth?

 

Who moderates the moderators?

 

If, like a sports referee, a moderator makes a bad call can it be overturned? And if so then what?

 

 

 

 

I'm not a Mod here, but am on another couple of forums. Usually a Mod can move or delete a post without approval. If they have any questions about it, we will usually ask the other Mods about it and either restore, edit or kill it. Hope that helps.

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

2 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

 Just curious...

 

How many moderators are there?  Can just one moderator delete something or do they have to have a conference and vote or at least reach a consensus that something is delete worth?

 

Who moderates the moderators?

 

If, like a sports referee, a moderator makes a bad call can it be overturned? And if so then what?

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/WireRoles&Resp2018.pdf

 

 

[Von Dutch, SASS # 7995]

 It's like being pro Trump on facebook here!  Look what happened to the Carbon fiber mag tube thread they closed that and try starting a post about range safety? V.D.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

Ba Humbug

[Snakebite]

30 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

 

https://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/WireRoles&Resp2018.pdf

 

 

If this is true and correct maybe there should be a system where we can report those that don't adhere to all the guidelines. We could all secretly spy on one another. That might go a long way toward insuring Subjectivity and might even have the effect of getting everyone to "Walk the Line".  What do you think comrade?

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

Let's see, no political posts, no inappropriate posts/pictures, no cussing, no religious attacks, and most especially do not, and I mean do not criticize anything about SASS leadership.

So leadership in SASS is changing. Maybe they haven't told us Zuckerberg bought SASS and brought his campaign of censorship?

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

3 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

If this is true and correct maybe there should be a system where we can report those that don't adhere to all the guidelines. We could all secretly spy on one another. That might go a long way toward insuring Subjectivity and might even have the effect of getting everyone to "Walk the Line".  What do you think comrade?

 

Нет, спасибо. У меня и так достаточно на тарелке.

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

Also see the change announcement from 2018:

 

 

[Castalia,SASS#18915]

Sitting back enjoying a flat day old beer and some soggy peanuts. Wah Wah Wah

[Von Dutch, SASS # 7995]

48 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Let's see, no political posts, no inappropriate posts/pictures, no cussing, no religious attacks, and most especially do not, and I mean do not criticize anything about SASS leadership.

So leadership in SASS is changing. Maybe they haven't told us Zuckerberg bought SASS and brought his campaign of censorship?

I think Zuckerberg bought it a long time ago!!!!!!!!!!!!! V.D.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

17 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

With all due respect for the question, if I were a moderator, I'd have done the same. If this forum software supported it, I would have left a redirect expiring in a week or so.

 

If any of the intended results of any of the whines include a desire for serious consideration for a change, that would not be the thread I would choose to present my argument. Reference my own posts above where I backed out of further whining context for a serious question; someday I might have a serious question about it, but only after I understand related history and reasoning.

It does.

2 hours ago, DeaconKC said:

I'm not a Mod here, but am on another couple of forums. Usually a Mod can move or delete a post without approval. If they have any questions about it, we will usually ask the other Mods about it and either restore, edit or kill it. Hope that helps.

This is the case here.

1 hour ago, Von Dutch, SASS # 7995 said:

 It's like being pro Trump on facebook here!  Look what happened to the Carbon fiber mag tube thread they closed that and try starting a post about range safety? V.D.

Not quite. However, I would not have closed that thread. The "rules" threads that are locked prevent comments. So, other threads discussing them should be open, unless a reason for locking is given.

50 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

If this is true and correct maybe there should be a system where we can report those that don't adhere to all the guidelines. We could all secretly spy on one another. That might go a long way toward insuring Subjectivity and might even have the effect of getting everyone to "Walk the Line".  What do you think comrade?

That system already exists. It is just not used in that manner. Go to your room.

 

I am not a Moderator. However, I have inside information from the past. 

[Waimea]

6 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Go to your room.

 

 

 

Funniest post of the day. 

[Snakebite]

Ha. Actually I do know that it exists. I just believe that nothing good can come from a system the relies upon our peers to secrectly spy upon us. It is totally against our American system and those putting this systrm in place should be totally ashamed. Trying to take control in that fashion will never work when dealing with Free people.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

31 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

Ha. Actually I do know that it exists. I just believe that nothing good can come from a system the relies upon our peers to secrectly spy upon us. It is totally against our American system and those putting this systrm in place should be totally ashamed. Trying to take control in that fashion will never work when dealing with Free people.

Some "important" people (I guarantee that I am not important) have advised that the Moderators should rely on "Reports" by other users. I put my neck on the chopping block and used my name (alias) when doing so. It brought me much grief.  I'm glad that the current moderators are anonymous and may (I could have) use "Reports." If enough people complain the post may be actionable,

[Snakebite]

Allie Mo: We have been friends since long before most of those on this SASS forum had even heard of CAS. That has not changed. When you were a Moderator I thought that you did a good job. I agreed with most of the calls you made, and even when I didn't we remained friends.

 

The world is changing and so are things in the administration of our game. I support the new organization and their plan to move SASS forward.  However, I believe as I always have that the Game belongs to us, the members who play the game.  Everything that I have ever done here or when I was still active on the ROC was done in support of the GAME.  We, those that play the game,  have entrusted SASS to over see and administer the game for us. The unification that only SASS can give the game is paramount for us to continue in any fashion other than on a small local level. I would not want any of my post to undermine the continuity between SASS and the Membership and if that has been the case I apologize for it and ask that any such post be removed. My ultimate objective was to caution against using too much control when censuring those who own the game. Making decisions that effect the membership without their support will hurt all of us. I will stand down for now.

 

Snakebite

 

 

 

 

[Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728]

Wow, sounds like how our Nov. 2020 election results have spilled over into the "game" we love to play.  If SASS is supposedly presently a Forum, where it's "customers" ie: members can post subjects and comments about the game they are playing, then when the Moderators decide to nix or move a post, why aren't they telling their "customers" why they made their decision?   People who play our game do NOT have to pay SASS a membership fee if they just want to go to local club matches.  They are SASS members because they want to belong to and support an organization they believe listens to them when they have issues about what is going on in their game.   We don't need SASS Moderators to become the Democrat Party version of the "Squad".

[DeaconKC]

@Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 as a mod on another gun forum, I can tell you that politics causes more problems than everything else combined. Especially at times like we are facing right now. Even in a forum like this one, where we support the 2A, good folks can get very adamant about their freedoms. I have deleted many posts that I agreed with because it was just fanning flames. This is a forum that needs those checks and balances as the Mods have managed to keep it reasonably well behaved and polite.

[John Kloehr]

I too have been a moderator elsewhere.

 

I see two takeaways so far from this discussion.

 

First, for any thread move to a different section, leave a redirect expiring in a week so folks know where a thread went.

 

Second, for any thread move a member disagrees with, send a (respectful) PM to someone with Forum responsibility.

 

Where I have been a moderator in the past, there was always a badge on all of my posts showing I was one of the moderators. This site takes the "anonymized" stance on moderators, which is also a reasonable option. In either case, certain actions would still be anonymized such as bans or points; even when membership knew I was a moderator, some actions where still "anonymized." Some members took offense at moderation.

 

I do note the mods here get lots of kudos for certain actions, like bans on spammers and blatant rule violations. I also note the mods did not delete or close the thread under discussion, nor interfere with this thread. So, just want to give them a shout out for doing a good job! And please leave bread crumbs for thread moves.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi John and others,

 

I know a few things as I've seen a few things.  

 

In my day, there was no training for Moderators. We did the best we could with our limited skills and understanding of the Guidelines. Unfortunately, we, personally, took our knocks for it although we may have conversed with other Moderators. 

 

If you have suggestions for better Moderation techniques, please post them. I, personally, like the new anonymity that they have and wish I'd had it.

[John Kloehr]

4 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Hi John and others,

 

I know a few things as I've seen a few things.  

 

In my day, there was no training for Moderators. We did the best we could with our limited skills and understanding of the Guidelines. Unfortunately, we, personally, took our knocks for it although we may have conversed with other Moderators. 

 

If you have suggestions for better Moderation techniques, please post them. I, personally, like the new anonymity that they have and wish I'd had it.

I have no problem with the anonymity.

 

One of the things not having anonymity provides is that every post ever made by a current mod (including those before they were a mod) is instantly marked with the badge. This means almost every thread has moderator "presence."

 

One of the things having anonymity provides is more freedom for current mods to actually participate in threads without having to worry every written word and opinion being treated by others as "this thou shalt believe and espouse."

 

Frankly, the public presence of identified moderators works better in forums where lots of policing is needed; this forum just does not show those same markers. That is a big compliment from me to the rank and file membership.

 

To expand a bit on the redirects suggestion... First I will assume that there is some sort of "moderators den" area of the forum. So threads are never actually deleted, just moved to a garbage collection section.

 

So that brings in a guideline: "All actions taken by moderators are reversible." So, never actually delete posts or threads, only move them. Keep documentation sufficient to restore them.

 

And then by default, all thread moves require a redirect remain. Including obvious spam. Maybe one day for obvious spam moves (maybe 1 hour for a short list of repeat offenders), maybe one week for for "housekeeping" moves. Yes, that means redirects to spam will not be viewable, typically with some "you do not have permission" error message. So yes, there will sometimes be an entry for some 'FaKe 1Ds" or "Re@l V1@gr@" thread for a short time. Only for banned words in a title would I not leave a redirect.

 

The move under discussion was a housekeeping move IMO. While I consider it a correct move, there is clear disagreement on this. Should the moderators decide to reverse the move, please leave a redirect; it now has audience in both sections.

 

Now, if any one of the issues raised was posted without the whining context (serious discussion), that clearly belongs on The Wire. My blessing for moving it to the Saloon is for the whining (humorous) context.

 

As a newcomer, I do find the thread somewhat informative as to current and past organizational questions, but more than that I read it as entertaining.

 

I do recognize some members only read certain sections of this forum, but what I use as my "Home" button at the top of the page presents me with all unread threads so for me, the move is pure housekeeping. I never noticed the move nor would I have seen the redirect.

 

For those who "live" in a section, the redirect is essential to know where the thread went.

[Blackwater 53393]

Frankly, that thread fits much better in the Saloon!!! 

 

AND!!!  If you don’t frequent the Saloon from time to time, you’re missing out on some GREAT conversation/entertainment/education!!

[McCandless]

This whole crapfest has been blown wildly out of proportion.  It was a one off, discussed at the Winter Range TG meeting.

NOW, everybody is running around like this is something new.   The sky is falling!! The sky is falling!!

Y'all been cooped up under COVID restridctions too long?   The way that post had been going, it belonged in the Saloon!

 

Wailing about it here gets nothing done.  Why don't you get your TG's involved, like your supposed to, and revisit it if you don't like it?