I have a question for any experience parachute jumper that might be out there

[Alpo]

I draw your attention to both the position of the door and the position of the wing, and ask if it would be feasible for someone to skydive from a Learjet. More than once.

 

 

There is a 14 or 15 book series of comedic novels about MASH. In MASH goes to Texas we meet Bubba Burton, who was in Vietnam as a Green Beret, and is extremely rich, and routinely does HALOs from his Learjet.

 

Now when I first read this book back in the late seventies I thought nothing of that statement, but when I reread it yesterday I started to wonder.

 

And please, don't tell me IT'S FICTION. I'm fully aware that it's fiction. But just because something is fiction does not mean it's not true. In this fictional novel we have the state of Texas, a Winnebago motorhome, the Green Berets, Vietnam, and HALO jumping - all of which are real things.

 

It looks to me that if somebody attempted to jump out of that plane, most likely he would hit the left wing as he left. And it would probably be extremely difficult to get the door shut. But being of relatively sound mind, I have never had the urge to jump out of a perfectly good airplane, and thus have no experience to go by.

[DeaconKC]

Reminds me of my Dad's comment, "If at first you don't succeed, you probably shouldn't try skydiving."

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

all my jumps were static line and Uncle Sugar picked up the tab but . . . 

 

if the plane was flying slow enough, Stall speed + 1 mph let's say, guessing around 110 kts (thanks google) the jumper may be able to miss the wing. 

 

When we were on the drop zones watching jumps the jumpers pretty much came straight down from the door even a jump speeds of the A/C 

 

Also if the plane is banked to the right (left wing high) this might improve his chances even though he would have to walk "up hill" to get to the door

 

Don't think the engine would be a problem as it's pretty far back

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

Imagine the hood of your car fully opening at 70 mph. 

 

Aircraft doors would depart likely damaging the engine and empennage, if not the wing itself. Given the large opening ahead of the wing and relative to the circumference of the fuselage, I’m thinking aerodynamics and structural integrity are severely compromised. 
 

I can’t think of any routine jumps that take place in front  of the main wings and engines. 
 

 

[Alpo]

It did seem to me that the doors on aircraft that were used for jumping were either removed entirely, or they opened into the plane.

[twelve mile REB]

Anything is possible with enough time and money.  The major problem is with the hatch (door) a major no - no "DO NOT OPEN IN FLIGHT" stenciled on the hatch, and printed in the aircraft manual.  Is there a work around probably, installing a hatch that would open in and not activate the step is certainly possible.  Is it going to cost a lot of money to certify it, yes.  Could a wealthy individual get someone to build it and not certify it again yes.  Could it be removed and the plane still fly, yes.  There would be a heck of a lot of drag on the left side taking a lot of right rudder to keep the wing level and in take off well that's scary.  That said and done could you jump from this configuration again yes.  Speed and attitude would need to be calculated with the induced drag of the open hatch, would I jump first to prove the calculations, in a word no.  However, refer to the first sentence.  Your mileage may vary.  

[Texas Joker]

Is there a cargo door on that bird? That many windows they gotta put the luggage somewhere.

[Pat Riot]

You have to get a six foot  running start 

[SHOOTIN FOX]

Even on the ground closing the bottom hatch door  requires an electric winch assist to close it. In flight, doubtful. A modified door is a possibility.

[Alpo]

When I made my original post, I had just been looking for an example of the plane with the door and the wing easily seen.

 

This is a 1975 Lear. This would be the airplane used in the novel.

 

 

Notice it is much shorter. Four windows versus eight. The engine was therefore be much closer to the door.

[Alpo]

Another question. Would a pressurized airplane have oxygen available to the pilot?

 

Same series, different book. A man steals a Learjet in Maine and flies it to San Francisco, and is on oxygen all the way.

[Pat Riot]

Apparently there is a rear door on a Lear Jet. Bono's jet lost one in 2014 and the poor poor man lost  all  his luggage...

 

 

 

[Alpo]

Don't know what year or model this one is.

 

It looks like he would clear the wing and the horizontal stab. Somehow I doubt the luggage compartment is connected to the passenger compartment. Undoubtedly there's a bulkhead between them.

 

But it does look doable. Except for the outward swinging door.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

59 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Another question. Would a pressurized airplane have oxygen available to the pilot?

 

Same series, different book. A man steals a Learjet in Maine and flies it to San Francisco, and is on oxygen all the way.

For emergencies like depressurization, yes. I don't know about a coast to coast flight tho. Why did the guy need to use the supplemental oxygen in the first place?

[Alpo]

He had both a bad heart and lung cancer. They had sent him to Crabapple Cove to have Hawkeye fix him. But he decided he would rather have his personal doctor do it, so he went back home to San Francisco.

 

They decided that he probably had planned to die on the way, going out at the stick in the tradition of a good fighter pilot. But because he had been sucking pure oxygen all the way across he was still alive.

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

I've jumped out of several types of planes, but the only one with a jet engine was the now-defunct C-141 Starlifter.  With prop planes (civilian Cessnas of various models and the venerable C-130), having the wings in that position in relation to the door is irrelevant, as it was with the C-141.  Don't forget about gravity.  You fall well below the wing long before it reaches your position.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

All of those planes have wings sitting on top of the fuselage above the exit. 

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

12 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Imagine the hood of your car fully opening at 70 mph. 

 

Aircraft doors would depart likely damaging the engine and empennage, if not the wing itself. Given the large opening ahead of the wing and relative to the circumference of the fuselage, I’m thinking aerodynamics and structural integrity are severely compromised. 
 

I can’t think of any routine jumps that take place in front  of the main wings and engines. 
 

 

Picky, picky, picky. 

[Sixgun Sheridan]

It's starting to sound to me like literary writers are no better at getting their facts straight than Hollyweird film producers.

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

I still want one of them 27 shot revolvers, pard.

Best

CR

 

[Sixgun Sheridan]

On another forum we've been talking about Ian Fleming, and how refreshing it was that he was willing to let gun expert Geoffrey Boothroyd educate him on guns and holsters after the silly things that were mentioned in the first James Bond novel "From Russia With Love".

[Pat Riot]

16 minutes ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

On another forum we've been talking about Ian Fleming, and how refreshing it was that he was willing to let gun expert Geoffrey Boothroyd educate him on guns and holsters after the silly things that were mentioned in the first James Bond novel "From Russia With Love".

Isn't he the "expert" that suggested Bond have a Walther PPK? 

[Sixgun Sheridan]

14 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Isn't he the "expert" that suggested Bond have a Walther PPK? 

 

The PPK was a better choice than the .25ACP Beretta he was first equipped with in the novel. Besides that, at the time (1960s) a PPK was still considered a serious concealed carry handgun. Not so much today, of course.

[Tex Wilson]

I have 960 sport parachute jumps and was a skydiving instructor and jumpmaster. I would jump the Lear as long as the pilot had slowed it down to just above stall speed and flew it slightly nose down. When I exited out the door I would immediately go into a head down dive towards the rear to make sure I cleared the aircraft and then enjoy the skydive. 

[Cholla]

10 minutes ago, Arizona Gunfighter said:

I have 960 sport parachute jumps and was a skydiving instructor and jumpmaster. I would jump the Lear as long as the pilot had slowed it down to just above stall speed and flew it slightly nose down. When I exited out the door I would immediately go into a head down dive towards the rear to make sure I cleared the aircraft and then enjoy the skydive. 

I was wondering about you... 960 times!?! Nope. Not me. I'll hunt rattlesnakes on good ol terra firma!

[Texas Lizard]

2 hours ago, Arizona Gunfighter said:

I have 960 sport parachute jumps and was a skydiving instructor and jumpmaster. I would jump the Lear as long as the pilot had slowed it down to just above stall speed and flew it slightly nose down. When I exited out the door I would immediately go into a head down dive towards the rear to make sure I cleared the aircraft and then enjoy the skydive. 

You did say, enjoy the skydive....I am not sure I can agree with that....At 960 I guess you do....The only the thing I remember was a friend in tech school at Lackland AFB, got into it...He learned one thing after watching someone else miss it....PULL the between the leg straps up very snug....That was to let everything hang free....

 

Texas Lizard

[Utah Bob #35998]

I wonder what the stall speed of a Lear is?

[Alpo]

I found four sites that list it. Two say 110 knots, one says 100 and the last one says 87.

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

110 mph or kts is doable.  

 

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

On 12/17/2020 at 9:27 AM, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

 now-defunct C-141 Starlifter. 

 

Just like me I guess.  That was a great jump with the windscreen and all..  cute little step to get you out the door.

 

With 130s you could sometime hear the helments hitting the sides of he A/C (when not jumping out the back)

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

35 minutes ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

 

Just like me I guess.  That was a great jump with the windscreen and all..  cute little step to get you out the door.

 

With 130s you could sometime hear the helments hitting the sides of he A/C (when not jumping out the back)

 

My favorite thing about the C-141 was doing "Hollywood" jumps -- i.e., no combat equipment, just the parachute and a reserve.  I was always near the end of the chalk, so by the time I got to the door, the aircraft was almost back up to full speed.  It could not hold the slow jumping speed for the entire chalk to make it out the door; it would have stalled out.  So on a Hollywood jump, by the time I got to the door I didn't even have to step out.  The wind sucked me out the door and into the breeze  

[Trailrider #896]

"D.B. Cooper, where are  you?"

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

3 hours ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

 

My favorite thing about the C-141 was doing "Hollywood" jumps -- i.e., no combat equipment, just the parachute and a reserve.  I was always near the end of the chalk, so by the time I got to the door, the aircraft was almost back up to full speed.  It could not hold the slow jumping speed for the entire chalk to make it out the door; it would have stalled out.  So on a Hollywood jump, by the time I got to the door I didn't even have to step out.  The wind sucked me out the door and into the breeze  

 

We usually put the big guys at the back of the stick.  Since trucks were at the beginning of the drop zone the longer you were in the plane the further from the trucks.

 

Betting some of the guys' feet never touched the floor once the "elephants" started pushing.

 

When the JM asked if there were any quesions at the end of the pre-jump briefing I would always ask if Gravity stopped working while we jumped would we float away?  Spent a lot of time at the back of the sticks

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

7 minutes ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

 

We usually put the big guys at the back of the stick.  Since trucks were at the beginning of the drop zone the longer you were in the plane the further from the trucks.

 

Betting some of the guys' feet never touched the floor once the "elephants" started pushing.

 

When the JM asked if there were any quesions at the end of the pre-jump briefing I would always ask if Gravity stopped working while we jumped would we float away?  Spent a lot of time at the back of the sticks

I’m 5’10” and weighed about 170 when I went through jump school.  We did everything alphabetically.  I’m in the middle if the alphabet, so I was at the end of one chalk, and the guy after me was at the beginning of the next one.

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

1 minute ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

  We did everything alphabetically.  I’m in the middle if the alphabet, so I was at the end of one chalk, and the guy after me was at the beginning of the next one.

 

we had specialdispensation for sSmart A**es like me . . . oh and laps--just loved to run them

 

from being at the end of the string to always wanting to be in lead Hueys--always did this as tree line was closer