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uberti lightning rifle


El CupAJoe

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5 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

If you're the type of shooter who like to mess around trying to make a gun work OK.

If you're not really concerned about being competitive or dealing with jambs OK.

 

How many top shooters shoot lightnings? 0.0

If you want one because you like the look and you have the cash OK.

 

I had a Pedersoli in 44-40 tuned by one of the leading lightning experts. I shoot BP and couldn't get the thing to run. It was sold after laying in the safe for 6 years.

Ike

Last I heard Lassiter shoots a lightning, couple others come to mind also.

kr

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8 hours ago, El CupAJoe said:

honestly, I don't have money for a gun, I have a gun I can trade, and it's trade in value is only so much, I'm not going to be shooting many matches until I'm out from under my school debt, but I do want to get out once or twice a year, have some fun with some awesome people, gain some experience that will help me if I decide I do want to go deep in this sport some day.  I just need something to be somewhat usable for about 5 years/10 matches, then I'll be out of debt, have played around with some more things and be able to buy what I want for a game gun.  for what my gun is worth, I figured I could probably get into a rossi 92, but when I came across the uberti, I was wondering if it might be a step up from a R92.  I used to have a miroku Win 94AE in .357 mag and it was a nice gun, but not something I would want to beat around at a match, I don't mind tinkering and fixing things, I kinda like projects.  I handled an IWI timberwolf once upon a time, and I like the novelty of pump action pistol calibers, If money were no problem, I'd probably like a miroku 66, but then if money were no option, I'd probably like a burgess folding shotgun and burgess slide action rifle and a 12 shot Walch revolver as my 3 main match guns :D

 

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What ya got ya want to trade?

kR

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On 12/7/2020 at 5:57 PM, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

Okay, that makes sense.

 

I may yet have to get a Pedersoli, just to see how it compares to the ones I do have.  

FWIW, when I was trying to get my first Lightning, I just wanted one to have one.   The store I was in had an AWA, Taurus and a Beretta, which I have heard was made by Uberti, but I have also heard it was not.

Anyway the Taurus felt like running two pieces of sandpaper together.   The Beretta was smooth, but clunky.   The AWA just seemed right, so that's what I bought.   Never looked back or regretted it.   

So to El Cupa, I would strongly recommend that you compare different ones to each other to help you make your choice.  Better to spend a little extra up front for something that works than to save money to lose on getting it fixed.

The Beretta Goldrush was made by Uberti.  It seems to me that the Goldrush disappeared from the Beretta catalog when Uberti became a Beretta company.

My main match rifle in 45C is a 2011 Goldrush.  I concur that 45C is dirty with lots of chamber blowbuy.  I have to wet tumble cases to remove the stains.  The only issue I have had is an infrequent but annoying issue of fail to fire due to bolt being slightly (a few thousands) out of battery.  I close the bolt vigorously.  When the FTF happens I feel the bolt move forward.  Due to the gun's transfer bar safety you either have to jack out the round or do a coordinated maneuver to cock the hammer.  You have to pull the trigger while cocking the hammer then reset the trigger.  If you reset the trigger before the hammer is in the full cocked position the hammer will fall when your thumb is off the hammer spur.  This feature is why you can't slam fire an Uberti Lightning.  One of the desirable features of the lightning is it uses an elevator like a shotgun so reloading on the clock is fast. When magazine is empty just drop one over the top.  Another thing unique to the Lightning is the loading procedure.  The bolt hast to be open to feed cartridges into the magazine.

P.S.  One of these days I will disassemble it & look for the source of the problem.  I did that with a Taurus 380 that was a jam-o-matic.  Couldn't shoot a box of any 380 ammo without a dozen fail to go into battery.   The source was marginal recoil spring rate which could overcome the rise in friction when cartridge transitioned from feed ramp to the chamber.  I honed the cylinder with valve lapping compound and chamfered the transition.  After the slicking up it never fails to cycle.  The Pistol was shot lived in Taurus's catalog like the Thunderbolt.  The misses purchased the pistol before she heard from a friend that had one which went to the factory twice before she traded it for a Bond 38  derringer.   Me I took it as a challenge to figure out the design problem.  With micro blowback pistols the design balance is there enough recoil spring force to insure reliable cycling without making it difficult to rack the slide.  In the case of the PT738 there was too much force required reliably to strip a round from the magazine & feed it into the chamber and close the slide in battery.

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There is a GOOD reason that you don't see a Lightning rifle being used as a main match rifle very often.  They don't have a reputation as a main match choice.  True, a lot of them can be made to be reliable and they are nice.  If you already have a reliable main match rifle and the bug got you for a Lightning go for it.  Heed the information that all of the pards above have offered.

Blackfoot

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13 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

How's it an opinion? It's based on fact, no one has ever one a World, National, or regional shoot/category using a lightning. Why? Because they aren't as dependable and fast as a 73 and an occasional Marlin.

 

Hasn't Lassiter won Winter Range or one the Regionals in his area with a Lightning?

 

But still, he would be 1 out of how many shooters?

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15 hours ago, Kid Rich said:

What ya got ya want to trade?

kR

Ruger 77/357, with Ruger scope rings and some Burris Ruger to Weaver scope bases, and a bit of rail, not permanently attached up front for a bi-pod if desired.  it can be easily rechambered to .357 MAX if someone wanted to use it for straight wall hunting states, it's a 5.5 lb rifle.  

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I like the USFA Lighting in .44-40.  It has been my main match rifle for a lot of years.  It is hard to find one for sale, and repair if a part breaks is a real pain but it shoots good for me as long as the ammo is in speck.  My Uberti 73 is easier to shoot and has a large chamber so loads anything I try it with.  The Rossi has a tight chamber so the ammo has to be in speck.  If case isn't FL sized it will not fit either Rossi or USFA chambers.  My .45 Colt Marlin has a large chamber so loads anything but doesn't like light loads.  It will shoot all day with full case FFFg black powder and a a 200 gr or 250 gr bullet.  From my point of view the Lighting works better with bottle necked calibers.  You have to work the slide like you have been P.O. at it for the last 6 months!

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Just out of curiosity would $400 be way too much for a Taurus LP rock in 45 lc stainless?  Asking for a friend... Hey it looked cool, I haven't actually shot it yet due to carpal tunnel surgery.

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6 minutes ago, Renegade Roper said:

Just out of curiosity would $400 be way too much for a Taurus LP rock in 45 lc stainless?  Asking for a friend... Hey it looked cool, I haven't actually shot it yet due to carpal tunnel surgery.

 

$400 is the absolute maximum I would pay for a Taurus.  I remember when they were going for that brand new when they first came out.   Based on that, I'm tempted to say that even this is too much, given the gun's well known problems.   Still, that would be my cut off.

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  • 1 month later...
On 12/7/2020 at 1:20 PM, Cholla said:

Are those LR rocks or SR rocks? Or did you convert them to LP and SP rocks? I just had a load of gravel delivered so I would like to know if I wasted my money.

SR rocks are getting harder to find at a good price.  Someone was spreading a rumor that they are going to get banned.  Some kid in the middle east took out a ranking badass in a duel with one and now congress is figuring out how to tax them... the locals made that kid a king or something.

 

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I tried the pump gun route, finally gave up.  You will need to spend a bunch of $$$ to get one to run correctly.  I tried the 3 most common brands and all had issues. 

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1 hour ago, Hashknife Cowboy said:

I tried the pump gun route, finally gave up.  You will need to spend a bunch of $$$ to get one to run correctly.  I tried the 3 most common brands and all had issues. 

I have Pedersoli lightnings and with the exception of two of them that were worked over by Lassiter or Roger Rapid they run fast and correctly with  zero dollars spent. Doing a little file work on the cartridge stop lever will cure 99% of a Pedersoli Lightning issues and the other 1% is usually operator caused.

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Wanted to throw my hat in the ring on this one. Some thoughts on the various points raised:

Running a Lightning hard: H.K. Uriah suggests running them hard, and I agree,  but I'd like to modify that slightly and suggest that Lightnings need to be run assertively and very definitively: fully open, fully closed (and I'm sure H.K. agrees).

Calibers: Colt's medium frame Lightings (like all of the clones today) were originally designed for 44-40, 38-40, and 45LC. Everything on the inner workings of the Lightning were designed to hug a cartridge that size. So, .38s and .357 flop around a bit and typically don't run as well as the original designed calibers. And, while on calibers, the 44-40 and 38-40 versions are much more comfortable to shoot because their necked cartridges eliminate or greatly reduce the amount of blowback (which is prominent in straight-cased rounds in a Lightning).

Slam Firing: While slam firing is fun - and Lassiter does well slam-firing his Taurus - on a Lightning the hand steading the rifle is the same hand that is working the action - on a '73, the action (lever) is worked by the non-steadying hand. So this calls for a lot of practice. I run a Pedersoli in .45LC and because of the left-hand steadying issue, I prefer the longer octagonal 26" barrel because of its greater mass and steadying attributes.

Versions: From the outside, aside from the dust cover on some versions, all the AWA, Taurus, USFA, Uberti, and Pedersoli Lightnings look pretty much the same. The insides are majorly different, and how they run, is somewhat different model to model. At the end of the day, it's what you practice with and get used to that counts.

Functionality: I'm afraid to say this because as soon as I do, I know my Pedersoli Lightning will crash and burn this weekend, but at the risk of it happening, here goes: "I never have a misfeed or jam with my Lightning" (that's a lie because I did have ONE about a month ago). :)

 

Regardless of all these, shooting a Lightning is too much fun.

RR

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"Calibers: Colt's medium frame Lightings (like all of the clones today) were originally designed for 44-40, 38-40, and 45LC."

 

No. Never .45.  .32-20.  .45 Colt is the absolute worse caliber in a Lightning.

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In response to some things that Roger Rapid said:

 

Running a Lightning hard: H.K. Uriah suggests running them hard, and I agree,  but I'd like to modify that slightly and suggest that Lightnings need to be run assertively and very definitively: fully open, fully closed (and I'm sure H.K. agrees).

 

Yes, I do agree.   Perhaps "hard" may give the wrong impression to some.   You need to run 'em with authority.   They are not a gun to be babied

 

 

Calibers: Colt's medium frame Lightings (like all of the clones today) were originally designed for 44-40, 38-40, and 45LC.

 

Now, before I could respond to this, Larsen Pettifogger said,

 

No. Never .45.  .32-20.  .45 Colt is the absolute worse caliber in a Lightning.

 

My response, yes, the original Lighting by Colt was never made in .45 Colt.   And yes, it was also made in .32-20.  I know, I have one, and it is a sweet, sweet shooter.   Unlike the modern replicas in .38, the magazine tube is skinnier so the cartridges don't rattle around in it.   They also seem to have no problem cylcing through the action properly.    I think perhaps the .38 has the same problems as the .45 can have, it's a straight wall case in a gun designed for bottlenecks.   Compare a .32-20 to a .38 Special.   The dimensions where the case gets fatter are similar to the .38.   Which brings me to my next point, as far as .45 Colt being bad for use in a Lightning, I don't buy it.   Yes, something like a .44-40 is "better" and I get why people say the .45 is bad, such as the blowback, and the inherent design problem of running a straight wall through something designed for a bottleneck.   But, like with the Winchesters so popular in our game, these problems can be overcome.  People have commented on how using the right load can reduce much of the blowback of the .45.   Me, I've just never let it bother me.   To date, I have shot 3 clean matches with my AWA .45, and it remains the ONLY rifle I have accomplished this feat with.  (At End of the Trail and the Mass, Conn, RI Tri-Sate no less.  Hooray for me!)  The only proviso I'll make with the .45 is that you MUST keep the gun clean or gunk will accumulate in the firing pin channel and cause failures to fire.   Flush it out with Gunscrubber after every match to avoid this problem.  I'd also not recommend black powder with the .45.   Use a .44-40 for that type of propellant.  It'll avoid many problems.  Are there "better" calibers to run in a Lightning?   Sure.   But I feel "worse" is a relative term.  It's not a deal breaker to me.

 

 

 

Slam Firing: While slam firing is fun - and Lassiter does well slam-firing his Taurus - on a Lightning the hand steading the rifle is the same hand that is working the action - on a '73, the action (lever) is worked by the non-steadying hand. So this calls for a lot of practice.

 

I'll agree with the overall thrust of this comment.   It is related to how some have said that the Lightning is not as good at holding proper aim on the targets as a lever gun.   Again, three clean matches say otherwise.  :)    I have found that as I have used the Lighting more, it stays on target much more easily than my Winchesters do.  I think practice may be the key.  That, and the sights on my Lightnings somehow lend themselves to being picked up more quickly than my Winchesters.   I don't know why.   I have not had occasion to try slam firing yet, but the AWA's like the Colt, will do it.

 

Versions:   No comment here.

 

 

Functionality: I'm afraid to say this because as soon as I do, I know my Pedersoli Lightning will crash and burn this weekend, but at the risk of it happening, here goes: "I never have a misfeed or jam with my Lightning" (that's a lie because I did have ONE about a month ago). :)

 

The only problems I've ever had with mine were operator error.  Letting the .45 get too dirty.  Having a magazine reducer plug in the AWA .44-40 that made it hard to load.  (I removed that).   Also the chamber in the AWA .44-40 was a bit tight, but that was easy to fix.  Other than that, no problems.  Granted my experience is limited to AWA and Colt, so I can't comment on the others.

 

Regardless of all these, shooting a Lightning is too much fun.

 

And in the end, that is a statement that I must concur with 100%.   When all is said and done, Lightnings are FUN to shoot.   And while practice makes perfect for any gun. I have found the learning curve for increase in performance is much easier than with the lever gun.   While I am still a bottom third shooter time wise, I have noticed that I have gotten much faster with the Lightning than I ever was the with the lever gun.  My overall slow stage times come from pistol and shotgun, not the rifle.

The only thing that is of comparable fun to shooting a Lightning is talking about how much fun they are too shoot.  

 

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I have an AWA Lightning in .44-40, so far it's worked well.  But... look at it this way, if you name a pistol and a rifle then same, somewhere there's an identity crisis.  If I understand your posts on this thread correctly, you currently don't have a cowboy action legal rifle, ergo, haven't shot a match.   If you buy something, anything, legal and it becomes a source of irritation, you will likely lose interest in it and cowboy action shooting quickly.   The one thing 35 years of playing this game has taught me, it that no firearm off the shelf will be "race ready" unless you buy it from one of the cowboy gunsmiths as a tuned, "race-ready" gun.  Everything, and I mean everything will require some form of tuning.

 

The closest you'll come to buying a tuned rifle will be an original Winchester 1892.  Unless you happen to be the unluckiest soul on earth, these are generally the slickest, smoothest flawless operating guns known to cowboy action shooters worldwide.  NONE of the worlds factories produce firearms of the quality today that were produced near the turn of the 20th century.  Labor is simply just too high.

 

Folks on here are quick to tell you to buy a toggle-link action as they are the most suited to cowboy action shooting.  This is a half-truth  For until the short stroke kit it was a very rare shooter that could shoot one as quickly as a properly tuned Rossi 92 or Marlin 1894!  I shoot two Uberti 1873s that are nearly factory stock.  But even they have been slicked up by me, aftermarket springs for carrier, lever and safety have been installed.  They are still factory length stroke.  What folks don't tell you is that even as slow as I am, I can shoot my slicked up Rossi 92 faster due to its slightly shorter stroke.  The Rossi has seen many hours of polishing the insides, the gap between the guide rails adjusted so that it feeds and ejects the .38 special loads with grace, style and Japanese railroad regularity.  And after hours of reworking its internals, my Marlin 1894 tuned to run the Cowboy45Special is faster yet!  However, for me, it ain't all about speed.  So yes, I shoot a non-short-stroked 1873 Uberti... simply for it's "look".  And when I shoot Frontiersman, I use an 1860 Henry, simply for it's "look".  but, there again, it's internals use non factory springs, and it has been de-burred and "clearanced" to run with black powder.  

 

I shot a box stock 3rd gen Colt SAA for around 6 monthly matches and the first day of EOT until I handed it over to be tuned by a single action master smith... and have never regretted it since.  It has since been rebuilt again.  When my wife started shooting, she shot a Ruger, and it quickly found its way to a gunsmith for a tune-up... Then when she decided she wanted to shoot "traditional" guns, the SAA clones all became work for a gunsmith to correct timing and other areas that make for a smoother and better operating piece of machinery.  All four of my 1851 Colt clones have been seriously 'smithed in order for them to work with smoothness and reliability.  Both of my Stoeger shotguns have been slicked up and modified to work like clockwork, both of my TTN hammered doubles have been slicked up with the purpose of being smoother, easier to operate than they ever thought about being direct from their factory.  

 

Buying "quirky" and "different" may hold some appeal in the theory stage of things... but, they can quickly become irksome when they don't quite live up to their "hype".  As the famous and well deserved "King" of 1892 Rossi sez, you can't take the family wagon out and expect to win the Daytona 500.  But, here's the rainbow after I've rained all over this parade:  If you have some modicum of mechanical aptitude, you can buy a Marlin 1894, Uberti 1873/66, or the Rossi 92 and with instructions found in a couple of places specifically for transforming these "family wagons" into race cars for next to nothing!  

 

Study Marauder's Rifle Tips and pick which one you think will suit your capabilities and get to tunin'!  

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The Colt Lightning rifle is perfectly legal for SASS use.  To quote the Shooter's Handbook, "Rifles or carbines used in the main and team matches must be original or replicas of lever or slide action rifles manufactured during the period from approximately 1860 until 1899, incorporating a tubular magazine and exposed hammer."  The Lightning rifle fits in that description.   How can you think it is not legal for SASS?

 

 

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On 1/25/2021 at 10:17 PM, Roger Rapid said:

Calibers: Colt's medium frame Lightings (like all of the clones today) were originally designed for 44-40, 38-40, and 45LC. Everything on the inner workings of the Lightning were designed to hug a cartridge that size. So, .38s and .357 flop around a bit and typically don't run as well as the original designed calibers. And, while on calibers, the 44-40 and 38-40 versions are much more comfortable to shoot because their necked cartridges eliminate or greatly reduce the amount of blowback (which is prominent in straight-cased rounds 

RR

Do people sleeve the mag tube and put a smaller spring and follower like the lever guns in 38/357 ? 
im interested in a 38 because that’s what everything else I have is in . Primarily interested in the pedersoli , did they not accommodate for the smaller caliber with the carrier, extractor , bolt face , etc . Also is the lockup on this gun strong enough to take full power 357 if you wanted to hunt with it ? 

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I wish I had the couple of years back I tried to get my 45 Colt Taurus to work. It would work fine in practice and mess up in every match. It proved to be a challenge I could not win and got rid of it. My Remlin 44 Mag sometimes had a problem,. but nothing like the every match problems with the Taurus. A little work on the Remlin with a few parts changes  and testing to find the right ammo has made it a pretty good rifle. 

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