Mask/ Face Coverings Required

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Im not here to debate the efficacy or need for masks/ face coverings.

Simply to ask clubs to place this information on your website if these are required at your events AND in what context (always, not during shooting, if in groups, etc.).

AND on your WEBSITE - do whatever you wish on your clubs facebook, newsletter or local message board. 

I and most shooters do not look anywhere other than your website for information.

 

I visited a club today that is now requiring (apparently by demand of the hosting range) masks/ face coverings at all times absent time spent shooting.

Fine - their club; their rules.

But inform me prior to me loading my cart, gear, and driving to your event of any requirements. 

I'll make my own decisions from there.

[Dirty Dog Doug]

we have been shooten masked up since we reopened in july we try for 6 ft or  more 

we tell everyone the rules 

more people are stay home because is age and other heath issues 

MY county requires mask anytime you are a public building 

worst part is not eating with friends after the shoot 

[Chert Rock Chuck]

22 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Im not here to debate the efficacy or need for masks/ face coverings.

Simply to ask clubs to place this information on your website if these are required at your events AND in what context (always, not during shooting, if in groups, etc.).

AND on your WEBSITE - do whatever you wish on your clubs facebook, newsletter or local message board. 

I and most shooters do not look anywhere other than your website for information.

 

I visited a club today that is now requiring (apparently by demand of the hosting range) masks/ face coverings at all times absent time spent shooting.

Fine - their club; their rules.

But inform me prior to me loading my cart, gear, and driving to your event of any requirements. 

I'll make my own decisions from there.

+1

 Our local clubs try to maintain distancing but do not require masks at any time.

 Usually at a monthly with 20-30 shooters, 1or 2 will show up wearing one. At the end of the match there is seldom a mask in sight.

 We don’t condemn anyone for wearing one, but also do not require anyone to abide by a rule that imposes the choices of others upon them. We are all responsible for our own health and welfare.

Our state match was just a few weeks ago. With over 200 shooters, I can’t recall a single mask worn at the awards banquet.

On the range, I recall seeing 2-3 masks scattered around roughly 20 posses.

 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

16 minutes ago, Dirty Dog Doug said:

we have been shooten masked up since we reopened in july we try for 6 ft or  more 

we tell everyone the rules 

Your clubs website makes no mention of mask requirements. 

So as a out of town/ out of state shooter - how would I know your requirements PRIOR to coming to your range?

That's all I am asking - not for you to change your policy or debate the mask need - simply to be informed.

[John Kloehr]

The assumption these days is mask mandates are at either the state or county level. This because the Federal government has no such authority and states may delegate to the county level.

 

In a few case, where there is a city-level health department, the mandates may be at that level; those tend to be big cities.

 

Since masks are only good for about two hours until they need to be changed for fresh ones, I simply can not see traveling any distance without a good supply of them.

 

Now, if you still want to shoot knowing you do not need to wear a mask outdoors (well, some places now require that too)... Might be worth contacting the club you are interested in rather than asking all clubs to post a notice just in case you show up at one of them.

 

Seems harsh? Hey, some guy at a (non SASS) competition I took part in actually asked if all other participants had negative CoViD test results before coming to the competition he was present at... He was gently informed that if he was not comfortable, he did not have any obligation to participate. And both by policy and common decency, there was no objection to any participant who wished to wear a mask.

 

In short, be prepared to mask up unless you first determine you do not need to, and be prepared to leave if you are not willing to do so. On the flip side,   a venue which does not have -- or follow -- a mask mandate, be prepared to leave as a matter of your personal responsibility.

 

I have pulled up at stores, and then driven away just because the crowds are bigger than my desire to shop for what I came for.

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Im not here to debate the efficacy or need for masks/ face coverings.

Simply to ask clubs to place this information on your website if these are required at your events AND in what context (always, not during shooting, if in groups, etc.).

AND on your WEBSITE - do whatever you wish on your clubs facebook, newsletter or local message board. 

I and most shooters do not look anywhere other than your website for information.

 

I visited a club today that is now requiring (apparently by demand of the hosting range) masks/ face coverings at all times absent time spent shooting.

Fine - their club; their rules.

But inform me prior to me loading my cart, gear, and driving to your event of any requirements. 

I'll make my own decisions from there.

I keep a couple masks in my car and plus I think a bandana over your mouth would suffice.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

2 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

Might be worth contacting the club you are interested in rather than asking all clubs to post a notice just in case you show up at one of them.

 

In short, be prepared to mask up unless you first determine you do not need to

 

So let me get this straight...

The default position should be - That instead of a club announcing to their customers any conditional restrictions that can vary by club, range, city, county, state and enforcement of said restrictions - a shooter should be complied to contact any and all venues to investigate any masking/ behavior requirements?

 

That our new normal is "expect arbitrary and inconsistent conditions" until you discover otherwise?

 

I thought clubs were in the entertainment business and that for customer service (to either reassure those who prefer a masked gathering or to save unnecessary trips or hard feelings from those who don't wish to participate in masked events) that clubs could simply post a notice.  Silly me.

 

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

5 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

 

So let me get this straight...

The default position should be - That instead of a club announcing to their customers any conditional restrictions that can vary by club, range, city, county, state and enforcement of said restrictions - a shooter should be complied to contact any and all venues to investigate any masking/ behavior requirements?

 

That our new normal is "expect arbitrary and inconsistent conditions" until you discover otherwise?

 

I thought clubs were in the entertainment business and that for customer service (to either reassure those who prefer a masked gathering or to save unnecessary trips or hard feelings from those who don't wish to participate in masked events) that clubs could simply post a notice.  Silly me.

 

 

That about sums up the country at the moment....

 

LL

[Patagonia Pete]

Screw the masks … (these days) be prepared … 

… but …

If they were letting pirates  and/or chainsaw murderers shoot w/o saying anything … I would be pissed …

 

[Dirty Dog Doug]

come to SF bay area where the china flu started in the west coast 

50,000 plus Chinese student went home over winter break

{guest of gavin and big sis}  bought us the bat flu

when my club reopened it was everything  we need to do stay opened  we will do it

[John Kloehr]

8 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

 

So let me get this straight...

The default position should be - That instead of a club announcing to their customers any conditional restrictions that can vary by club, range, city, county, state and enforcement of said restrictions - a shooter should be complied to contact any and all venues to investigate any masking/ behavior requirements?

 

That our new normal is "expect arbitrary and inconsistent conditions" until you discover otherwise?

 

I thought clubs were in the entertainment business and that for customer service (to either reassure those who prefer a masked gathering or to save unnecessary trips or hard feelings from those who don't wish to participate in masked events) that clubs could simply post a notice.  Silly me.

 

The new normal is to expect consistent application of mask mandates and occupancy limits.

 

Once there, you may find arbitrary and inconsistent lack of enforcement. Any statement on a web site will comply with the mandate. Only once present will you find out the reality.

[Snakebite]

Our site is down right now being rebuilt. When it goes back up I expect it will again give current information about the match. A few days before each match an email blast is sent to everyone on our mailing list informing them of the current situation. Right now we offer both a Mask Required and a Mask Optional choice of posses. In our email blast we request (not require) that shooters let us know if they are coming and let us know if they want on a Mask Required posse. This allows us to get things rolling. If we don't have enough people to make a posse of Mask Required...then those folks will either have to shoot on a Mask Optional or do something else. (at this point in time) That has never happened. We can only do so much to accommodate folks. We put a great deal of respect on personal choice and expect shooters to be responsible for themselves. Things changed a couple days ago and restrictions increased again so we will watch the situation closely.   But the bottom line is that the shooter is responsible. We can try to help, but they should know what the requirements of the area they are going into are. That information is posted on the State Covid-19 web page.   I don't know of any club that goes beyond what they are forced to do, and don't know of any club that does NOT do the minimum they are required. All legal requirements must be met.  A shooter always has the choice to go further than required with their protection if they desire. I mask up everywhere I go whether required or not. MY CHOICE. We try to assist when possible and a do agree that if your club has a web site it would be very desirable to post things there. Not all clubs have a web site so personal responsibility is and should always be the default mode of operation. 

 

Snakebite

[Cypress Sun]

I agree entirely with Creeker that the clubs have masks/no masks policy on their websites to make sure there are no surprises on match day. With that said, at this point and time, there really shouldn't be any "surprises" that one might have to wear a mask or maintain distance at any location outside of your own home.

 

I know that distancing one's self at matches is somewhat of a challenge due to various reasons. At the matches that I've attended in Florida, including the State match, 99% of the participants make no attempt to distance, wear masks or practice any mode of virus prevention at all. Every match has "shooters meetings" before the match and the same thing is implied at all of them....social distance, virus prevention, blah blah. It all goes out the window 10 minutes later, if that long.

 

I have personal options;

A) Skip the match and hide at home. 

B) Go to the match, practice virus prevention as best as I can and do my best to stay away from people.

 

Although I'm in the high risk group, I choose option B. I respect my fellow shooters by practicing virus prevention/social distancing....I just wish that my fellow shooters would do the same.

 

[doc roy l. pain]

I would tend to agree with Creeker. So far I contact people that put on the match and ask about requirements, but having it posted would help. Sometimes I can’t get a response back in time from a club representative to make travel plans for the shoot. 

I don’t shoot anywhere that a mask is required to shoot in. Now, don’t jump on your high horse and say I don’t care about keeping people safe. It’s simply that I cannot seem to keep my glasses from fogging up. I’ve tried commercial treatments and home remedies such as Dial soap and so far nothing works for me. I can get by going to the store and other places I need to by sliding my glasses down on my nose a little and they won’t fog. However, that’s not an option while shooting or being around the firing line. Thus, I elect to not attend matches where I am required to wear a mask the whole time. 

[Snakebite]

14 minutes ago, doc roy l. pain said:

I would tend to agree with Creeker. So far I contact people that put on the match and ask about requirements, but having it posted would help. Sometimes I can’t get a response back in time from a club representative to make travel plans for the shoot. 

I don’t shoot anywhere that a mask is required to shoot in. Now, don’t jump on your high horse and say I don’t care about keeping people safe. It’s simply that I cannot seem to keep my glasses from fogging up. I’ve tried commercial treatments and home remedies such as Dial soap and so far nothing works for me. I can get by going to the store and other places I need to by sliding my glasses down on my nose a little and they won’t fog. However, that’s not an option while shooting or being around the firing line. Thus, I elect to not attend matches where I am required to wear a mask the whole time. 

I have not come across that situation yet. It is unsafe to ask a shooter to continue with live fire when handicapped by glasses that are fogged up. Any club requiring that would, IMO, be totally out on a limb. Dropping the mask down during the actual shooting portion of the match and returning it after finished shooting just make good sense. I have a hard time understanding why any club would run that risk, and even harder understanding why any group of shooters would tolerate such a unsafe demand. 

[doc roy l. pain]

5 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

I have not come across that situation yet. It is unsafe to ask a shooter to continue with live fire when handicapped by glasses that are fogged up. Any club requiring that would, IMO, be totally out on a limb. Dropping the mask down during the actual shooting portion of the match and returning it after finished shooting just make good sense. I have a hard time understanding why any club would run that risk, and even harder understanding why any group of shooters would tolerate such a unsafe demand. 

Exactly!

[Scarlett]

I don’t trust the information on club websites because sooo many are out of date... IF clubs are gonna have websites, PLEASE KEEP THEM UPDATED! Summer hours/summer dress/masks/etc... I love @Snakebite’s Masked Posse option. I’m a Covid survivor and masker - not immune beyond about 60 -90 days so I’m keeping up my masking practice. 

 

Big hugs!

Scarlett

[Hoss]

One club that I shoot at regularly has an “outlaw posse”. Shooters wear masks except for when actually shooting. Those that prefer that sign up for that posse. The rest of us are .....slightly...... more careful. But I see a few hugs & handshakes. 
 

my personal feelings are you are either gonna get it or you’re not. Masks, social distancing, hand sanitizers etc  don't really make any difference. (I could be wrong) 

[Cholla]

As someone that helps take care of the FB page, there is now way on God's green earth I can keep track of an ever-moving target. The mask mandates change day to day, city to city, business to business. Here in AZ I have been in stores that absolutely mandate a mask and been in restaurants with signs that proclaim they are mask and cell phone free zones. (Anyone caught with a cell phone out will be asked to leave.) I carry a mask with me everywhere and duck and weave with the punches as they come, requirement wise. I don't get paid to do the FB page and I do the best I can in my spare time. I can say we at Granite Mountain Outlaws don't require a mask but if you want to wear one, there is no issue. I'm sure if the governor suddenly mandates them it will be a wink-wink, nudge-nudge, say no more type mask enforcement. 

[Popcorn Kelly]

I have no problem if others choose to wear masks and do my best to maintain a respectful distance from them.  I wore a mask at the loading/unloading tables once last year and that was enough. No more, and I won't go to a match where masks are required at anytime during the competition. 

I won't complain about any range that has an absolute mask requirement - that is their prerogative.  I'll just choose not to shoot there, which is my prerogative.  If this means I have to travel farther to shoot, so be it.  I look at that as an opportunity to visit clubs I may otherwise not visit.  I'll add that I tend to reach out in advance to check so there are no surprises when I get there.  I don't want to drive 3, 4 or more hours only to learn masks are required.  I agree it'd be nice if the organizers posted this information on their websites, but many are silent (our club posts our Covid protocols, but I'm also the webmaster). 

 

[Tully Mars]

Creeker, 

In a prefect world the web pages should be updated, however I've found that when I check out clubs web pages before traveling the scores in many cases haven't been updated for a few years, contact information is old and so on. If clubs aren't keeping up on monthly details and club contact, you're not going to find good up to date information on their site. 

 Many clubs including mine have a core group of shooters, those shooters are on an email list and get updates on a regular basis. Our web page does have a link to our Covid guidelines and preregistration procedure, but it's overlooked all the time and the various MD's are contacted in regards to restrictions in place.

We don't have to wear masks, but the host range made us submit an "Action Plan" as to how we will handle social distancing and so on.

cagunslingers.com

Tully

[Tully Mars]

I've always found contacting the club the best source of information. 

 

This summer I shot the Idaho state WB match, we traveled through Idaho for the next week planning on shooting a Cowboy match the following weekend. The MD and I were in contact via text, the night before the shoot I was told there was a scheduling problem and the match would be held on Sunday not Saturday. That allowed us to make a decision to move on down the road. Had I relied on the web page I would have been disappointed and most likely irritated. 

 

Tully 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

I fully agree that many club websites are woefully out of date and poorly maintained.  And many provide no phone number to call - simply an email that may or may not be responded to sometime.

But mostly I tire of the pitiful excuses for this condition - the ongoing refrain that club websites are such a challenge to update and maintain.

"We're just volunteers - we can't possibly update the page regularly or on a timely basis.  How would we ever keep up?"

 

I understand folks are volunteering their time - but you volunteered your time to do a specific task; if you are incapable or unwilling to do it correctly and thoroughly - find someone else who will.

 

Your local fire department may be "Volunteer" -  And since they're just volunteers and "they might not have the time" to do the task they signed up for.

I'm sure you would be onboard and fully understanding of their challenges as your house collapsed onto itself and your belongings burned.

 

Now, honestly - I'm not really equating outdated information on a website to your house burning down; but if I get up at zero dark thirty (and even worse, get my girls up at zero dark thirty), load up the car, drive X amount of time and arrive at your range to find closures, date changes or conditions different than noted on your website - that shows a spectacular lack of respect for your customers.

 

 

[Patagonia Pete]

Sometimes … simple things are frustrating … that's the best time to stay home.

[John Kloehr]

1 hour ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I understand folks are volunteering their time - but you volunteered your time to do a specific task; if you are incapable or unwilling to do it correctly and thoroughly - find someone else who will.

CoViD requirements are on state web pages, sometimes delegated to counties, and further to cities.

 

And match info is sometimes on web sites, sometimes on facebook, sometimes on practiscore, and sometimes at the restaurant get-together after the match.

 

And as to the quote... What if that person quits and nobody else wants to put up with the job? Many web sites are no more than a shingle showing the group existed at some point in the past.

 

At this point, what I have seen on this thread is folks who want everyone to comply with the mandates, folks who don't want to be subject to the mandates, expectations that clubs post the mandates that duplicate the authoritive sites for that information, and expectations that clubs state when they are not following those mandates. I am certain this last one won't happen. Not that some clubs don't follow them, but they sure are not going to post that information.

[Blackwater 53393]

One of several problems with posting mask requirements in club social media is that those requirements can change in a minute!!  

 

Another problem is that people not associated with the club or range could create problems for MDs and clubs that would relax standards for shooters and shooting. Publishing these bits of information could jeopardize clubs’ and or club members’ ability to put on a shoot.

 

 There are other possible problems with publishing this information, but these two should be enough reason for some clubs to be hesitant to do so.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Since reading comprehension is apparently not a strong suit of some.

I'll simplify.

If YOUR club is doing THINGS that are not UNIVERSALLY performed at SASS events - post it on your website.

 

I regularly shoot in four different states - your specific club, range, city, county or states restrictions are not special or guaranteed to be known to me - if I will find conditions at YOUR event that are specific to your club, range, city, county or state - please share that information.

If you are unable or unwilling to do so - find someone that can or will.

 

I find the pushback and resistance regarding providing information to your customers very telling.

 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

1 minute ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

One of several problems with posting mask requirements in club social media is that those requirements can change in a minute!!  

 

Another problem is that people not associated with the club or range could create problems for MDs and clubs that would relax standards for shooters and shooting. Publishing these bits of information could jeopardize clubs’ and or club members’ ability to put on a shoot.

 

 There are other possible problems with publishing this information, but these two should be enough reason for some clubs to be hesitant to do so.

The conditions in any given state are NOT changing minute to minute. 

But the conditions/ restrictions/ requirements in Nevada do vary from those in California/ Arizona/ Utah and ANY club that wishes to draw shooters from out of area needs to inform their visitors what they may encounter when they arrive.

 

NO one is asking for inaccurate information or asking that any club fail to abide by local mandate or requirements (I agree that would be a mistake and open the club to issue) - simply inform your potential shooters via website what the mandate may require.

Its really not that difficult.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

28 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

And as to the quote... What if that person quits and nobody else wants to put up with the job?

And if that initial person is not doing a quality/ complete/ accurate job - is there truly any loss? 

I would say NO website is better than an inaccurate or incomplete one.

[Blackwater 53393]

1 minute ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

The conditions in any given state are NOT changing minute to minute. 

But the conditions/ restrictions/ requirements in Nevada do vary from those in California/ Arizona/ Utah and ANY club that wishes to draw shooters from out of area needs to inform their visitors what they may encounter when they arrive.

 

NO one is asking for inaccurate information or asking that any club fail to abide by local mandate or requirements (I agree that would be a mistake and open the club to issue) - simply inform your potential shooters via website what the mandate may require.

Its really not that difficult.

 

Tell that to the San Francisco 49ers who found themselves locked out of all their facilities at a moment’s notice. It was fortunate for them that they had just a little lead time to make other arrangements!!!

 

In a city near me, the mask restrictions changed twice in a week, causing several businesses to close within hours of events crucial to their continued operation!

 

 I agree that when possible, it would be nice to have the information available through public or social media, but just how much trouble is it to call and ask??

You’ve probably already got the cell phone in your hand!!!

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

Carry one in your pocket or your car and the problem is solved.

[Blackwater 53393]

From what I can gather from Creeker’s posts, he wants the information available for those who don’t want to wear a mask at a shoot, perhaps including himself.

 

 I don’t like wearing a mask myself, but wouldn’t likely avoid a match where one is required. Some folks certainly would!

 

If I was one of those folks, I would definitely want to know, but I would probably call a Match Director or the number of the person responsible for such information, published or not, to be certain that something hasn’t changed, before I drove any long distance.

[watab kid]

at this time i will borrow your byline - 

 

   I LIKE MOST DOGS BETTER THAN I LIKE MOST PEOPLE

[Tequila Shooter]

A funny thing just hit me about this whole topic, at this time last year this topic would’ve seemed far fetched and you might’ve been laughed at for suggesting that a posse wear masks.  But come to think of it I never thought I’d go into a bank with a mask on.

[Texas Joker]

We dress up like cowboys, pull your wild rag up and rob the stagecoach.

 

If I shoot a new range I read the website. But I show up and ask questions and roll with it. 

 

I assume as a new guy to the group their ways will be strange to me. I have belonged to several associations with 'standardized rules ' and been told 'yea but we have more fun doing it like this '.

 

Varied political, age and health needs kinda mandate that YOU verify the situation not rely on somebody doing an additional layer of work keeping abreast of arbitrary changing mandates on a side hobby to keep you informed.