Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Timing issue???


Recommended Posts

I was helping one of our new lady shooters when this happened.  She just got a brand new set of Stallions in 38/357 that were "tuned" directly from Taylor's.   (Maybe I am too used to my pistols (Rugers) and what I consider "tuned" but if these were tuned I would hate to see what they were like before. This isn't a knock against Taylor's,  just an observation about what tuned can mean to one person vs others.)  Anyway there were 2 issues that occurred.  1) The 1st time she shot the one pistol it locked up and would not rotate.  She turned the cylinder a little and it freed up.  At first I thought she short stroked it or interfered with the hammer falling as she was adjusting her grip.  Then I  shot it to see where it was hitting (we were discussing putting the Sure Hit sights on and since these were brand new with factory sights untouched we wanted to know where they were hitting)  and the same gun locked up on me after the 1st shot.  At 1st I couldn't get it to rotate but after working it back and forth a little it finally rotated.  We were keeping track of each gun so we knew which one it was and it was the same gun that locked up on her.  2) Then as she was shooting I was standing to her side slightly behind her about 2-3 feet away so I could watch her grip rather than directly behind her as I had been when she 1st shot.  I was literally getting pelted lightly with what I would call "blowback" after each shot from this position.  Again it only happened in the one pistol so it wasn't the ammo.  I told her to stop shooting that gun because I didn't know what was wrong with it but something was not right.  After they left I was telling Schwaby about it and he asked if we had taken the cylinder out and looked to see if there were lead shavings around the barrel mouth.  He thought maybe the timing was off and the cylinder was not lining up right with the barrel and so the bullet was shaving pieces off as it tried to enter the barrel and that was the "blowback" I was experiencing when I was more to her side rather than directly behind her.  We hadn't taken the cylinder out so I don't know if there were lead shavings or not.   I told her to either send that gun back to Taylor's or send both guns to a gunsmith (she wanted to have the rear notch widened, Sure Sights, and an action job done on both guns anyway so this would eliminate sending the gun out twice).   What could the possible causes be so I know what to tell someone if this happens again and so they can tell Taylor's or the gunsmith they send it to?  Sorry this is so long but I tried to include as much info as possible that may or may not be relevant.  

Thanks Roper

Link to post
Share on other sites

Painful advice, but talk it over with Taylor's and see what they say.

 

I have a "Taylor's Tuned" Smokewagon that shot way to the left. They sent me a return postage mailing label to return the gun and they fixed it.  

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

When new Colt 73 replica's are brought to me, I will always test fire them before working on them.

I've found too many with problems that were built into them.

If it's easily fixed I do it along with the work, but some require being sent back.

Send enough back and maybe their quality control will improve.

J.M.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L said:

When new Colt 73 replica's are brought to me, I will always test fire them before working on them.

I've found too many with problems that were built into them.

If it's easily fixed I do it along with the work, but some require being sent back.

Send enough back and maybe their quality control will improve.

J.M.

 

I'm of the opinion the guns are just assembled and maybe cycled a few times at the factory.  I have a pair of Taylor's Tuned and a pair of Cimarron Tuned and had to clean up and fix problems on all four.  The only thing I see I got for the "Tuned" was a set of light springs installed.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless Uberti has changed their design Sure Hit front sight covers will not properly fit her Stallions as the front sight is thinner than those used on the full sized SAA.

 

I wanted them installed on my wife's P-jrs but they wouldn't work because the blade was not thick enough.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Unless Uberti has changed their design Sure Hit front sight covers will not properly fit her Stallions as the front sight is thinner than those used on the full sized SAA.

 

I wanted them installed on my wife's P-jrs but they wouldn't work because the blade was not thick enough.

 

I would think JB Weld would fill the gap. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

I'm of the opinion the guns are just assembled and maybe cycled a few times at the factory.  I have a pair of Taylor's Tuned and a pair of Cimarron Tuned and had to clean up and fix problems on all four.  The only thing I see I got for the "Tuned" was a set of light springs installed.  

Yup

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 45 Dragoon said:

The bolt reset cut needs to be addressed. It needs "help" by moving the cylinder back and forth which "encourages" the bolt arm to reset. Once it resets, it works again! (Presto!!)

 

Mike

+1  ^^^^

 

 

P1020005.jpeg

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

+1  ^^^^

 

 

P1020005.jpeg

Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by the bolt cut recess needs "help"?

 

Thanks for the info on the Sure Sights I will pass that along too.

 

Roper

Link to post
Share on other sites

The "cresent" shaped cut on the left bolt arm is the "reset cut".  It is I.D.'d in Mr. Pettifogger's picture of the cutaway. It needs to be slightly enlarged so that arm can slip over the cam so the cam can unlock the bolt for the next cycle.  It's also the second " click"  you hear when letting the hammer down from full cock .  .  .  the first one being the hand selecting the next ratchet tooth.

 

Mike

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, July Smith said:

I'd let Taylors fix what should be right from the get go, before sending them off for action work. 

 

 

Me, too. The owner paid for a set of tuned pistols and by God, I’d make ‘em make it right! 
 

Big hugs!

Scarlett

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to take away from the other possible issue, but did you look at the primers after the gun fired?  There have been issues with pistols that have a very tight cylinder gap and lightly loaded rounds.  When the round is fired, the primer is forced slightly out of the primer pocket but the cartridge is also forced back almost immediately thereafter as it recoils from the bullet leaving the casing.  The motion of the case backwards in the cylinder slams the case into the recoil shield which resets the primer in the pocket.

 

If the cylinder gap is tight, and if the load is too light to reset the primer in the case, then the primer will stick out from the case enough to make the gun either hard to turn or totally lockup.

 

May not be your issue, but worth looking at before you send the gun(s) back.

Edited by Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L
Link to post
Share on other sites

Renegade Roper, sent you a p.m.  Sorry, message didn't appear to send.  Said you couldn't receive messages. 

Edited by Sandhills Slim, SASS #22998
Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree Taylor would make it right.

 

That said, when I was at the last NRA convention that was not cancelled, I handled Uberti revolvers and Taylor slicked versions of the same. Taylor was adding value! The taylors simply felt better, moved better, trigger was better, visually the identical gun. Just felt better.

 

Sorry a bad one got through.

 

And that said, I bought a used set of Taylor/Uberti revolvers. When shooting in a match, something "went wrong." Cocking felt strange, the gun went click instead of bang...

 

A screw was working loose, and the tight tolerances on the slicked version caused a failure. The cylinder moved forward, got sort of jammed up and rough, and the primer strike was not on the primer... Tightened the screw with my thumbnail and back in the game on the next stage.

 

Making the tolerances tighter means a smaller error can cause a problem. Still a joy to shoot when all the parts are torqued correctly. That one loose screw was my first lesson in "bad gun."

 

In my case, I can attribute my failure to operator error/improper maintenance/my fault. But if it is a firearm defect, send it back! I do expect the capability of great operation from Taylor.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When the hammer is down all the way the bolt locks the cylinder.  From that position when you start to cock the gun, the bolt must drop to unlock the cylinder before it can turn.  You can take a few thousandths off of the TOP shelf of the hand to let the bolt drop a little more before the cylinder starts to turn.  Don’t take off any more than necessary though.

 

Before you do this, look at the bolt when cocking the gun.  You will be able to see if the cylinder tries to turn before the bolt drops far enough.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.