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1 hour ago, WOLFY said:

Waymore Loco,

 

You can drop another 30fps by loading Titegroup at their minimum recommended amount of 4.7grns.  Just re-read and noticed that’s a powder you’ve used before.

I use 205grn bullets but when I started out I was loading 240grn and even at over 900fps no one ever thought I was “loading too heavy” (shooting with three fifferent SASS clubs).

 

 

I had 4.8 grains of Titegroup when they were complaining that I was too hot. I'm afraid to cut it back much more. 

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Bear Creek 240gn moly RNFP and 6.5gn of Unique with firm crimp. That's my SASS load. OLG 

With winter coming, I wouldn't load less than 5.0gn of TG. Use a firm roll crimp. Forget that bunch of crybabies-find a real SASS club. OLG 

I’m hoping this isn’t the closest club to you.  Forget about ‘em, Loco.   If I’m mistaken and you’d like to shoot there again, maybe I’ll ride out for a match.  I’ll bring .44 that’s chrono’

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Hmm, just reread your OP, you have a Marlin 94.  I had blowback (into my face) problems with bullets under 200g and loads under 4.5g in .44 special brass.  You'll need to experiment a bit with lighter bullets and soft loads. My rifle may have an especially loose chamber, I don't know.  You can certainly load lighter bullets in your pistols. 

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7 hours ago, Waymore Loco said:

I had 4.8 grains of Titegroup when they were complaining that I was too hot. I'm afraid to cut it back much more. 

 

That’s only .1 over minimum.  

Sounds like those cowboys might just be a bunch of “complainers”, to me.  
 

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10 hours ago, Waymore Loco said:

I had 4.8 grains of Titegroup when they were complaining that I was too hot. I'm afraid to cut it back much more. 

 

I just looked at the Hodgdon website, 4.7 grs of Titegroup with a 240 grn bullet leaves the muzzle at 801 fps.  I doubt that extra tenth of a grain is adding a lot to your muzzle velocity.    To put it another way your load is pretty close to factory .45 ACP.

 

When I was shooting non SASS falling plate matches I would occasionally shoot a hot loaded .44 magnum with a 200 grain JHP bullet that was chronographed at 1770 fps.  It never dimpled the plates even though sometimes I would break the welds that held the plate to the stem on the rack.

 

It seems that there are 2 things going on at that club: the steel targets are not hard enough and most shooters are shooting light loads

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2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

With winter coming, I wouldn't load less than 5.0gn of TG. Use a firm roll crimp.

Forget that bunch of crybabies-find a real SASS club.

OLG 

That's what I'm thinking. I'm doing this for fun and those guys didn't seem like they were having much fun. 

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19 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

...just being on your posse my recollection is that your loads were fairly heavy, but they did not give me the impression of being warthog loads which I have gotten from some others.   I have no idea what the quality of the steel is there, though I think it is pretty good.

 

15 hours ago, Waymore Loco said:

I used the same loads at Plum Creek and it wasn't a problem. 

 

I’m hoping this isn’t the closest club to you.  Forget about ‘em, Loco.

 

If I’m mistaken and you’d like to shoot there again, maybe I’ll ride out for a match.  I’ll bring .44 that’s chrono’d at just under 1000fps.  They’ll never complain about your loads being “heavy” again.

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I use a truncated 180 grain bullet in front of 4.3 grs of Clays and a Fed 150 primer for my Wild Bunch loads in my '73. The same load works in my Marlin 94 as well. Magnum cases as the 44 special seem to separate in my gun after a couple of loadings.  The Mag brass does not.   

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My "Original" Vaqueros in .44 magnum like 4.1 grains of W231 pushing a 240 grain LSWC bullet. I get a power factor of 120. I tried getting the load less than 4.1 grains but then I have problems of bullet stability.

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isnt W231 published minimum something like 5-6 grns?

 

 

(my notebook has my CAS load at 5.5 @ 825fps)

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Dapper Dynamite Dick said:

My "Original" Vaqueros in .44 magnum like 4.1 grains of W231 pushing a 240 grain LSWC bullet. I get a power factor of 120. I tried getting the load less than 4.1 grains but then I have problems of bullet stability.

 

That load you posted, is well below any published load data minimums for that powder/bullet combination in that caliber ?    :huh::wacko:

OLG

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The variable in the recoil equation that has the most effect is Velocity.

For a 200 grain bullet, minimum load powders in low to high Velocity order:
• 700-X
• Red Dot
• Green Dot
• Bullseye
• HS-6
• 231
• Herco
• Unique
• Clays
• Titegroup
• Trail Boss

These minimum loads will not fill a 44 magnum case very much.

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I ran into couple of pards(pansys) that said I ran too hot....do like I do, fill up case of holy black under a 240-250 grainer and let em fly....smoke and fire chases whiney panseys away....or makes em mad, either way is a win

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Okay, earlier, I talked about my load.

Here's my guns in .44 Magnum...

 

1753863370_44MAgnums.thumb.jpg.20034f03b05df9e6a64f742852e9bdab.jpg

 

Top Rifle:  Rossi 92, pre-safety.
Top Pistols L to R:  Great Western Revolver.  Uberti
Bottom Rifle:  Winchester that has been given a new barrel.
Mare's Leg:  Chiappa.  [Not SASS Legal, but as fun as all get out]

I've seen the Marlin mentioned in other people's comments.  So if you want to shoot .44 Magnum, your only real choices are that and the 92.  I have HEARD that someone briefly marketed a 73 in this caliber, but I have never seen one.  As far as pistols go, well, if you can find an original Great Western, they are very well made guns in spite of the goofy hammer and firing pin.  Size wise they are nearly identical to a real Colt.  The Uberti clone is ever so slightly scaled up, and and is noticeably "beefier" than a standard caliber Colt/Clone.   These do make for alternatives to Ruger if you are so inclined to want something else.   I have fired full power factory ammo out of the Uberti.   It is quite the wrist snapper.   Never again will I attempt it with any of these guns.

As far as the Mare's Leg goes, well, you can't beat it for the sheer fun of shooting something odd.

In other words, alternatives exist.

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HK, I own a current Uberti 1873 #341260 in 44 magnum.
This is a current production rifle.
My only regret: it was not offered with an octagonal barrel.

Mine is a 2014 production year that sat in the warehouse unsold until I bought it this year.
I called the importer and they said the model is 100% unchanged from 2014 through today.

IMO, the 1894CB is more sturdy for long term use of full house loads.
The Marlin also offers a 1:38 twist that puts a 240 grain bullet right into the "sweet spot" of bullet stabilization.
My Uberti is a 1:20 twist, which over stabilizes the bullet a bit.
 

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bgavin, that's interesting to know about.    I would have figured that the 73 was not strong enough for the .44 Magnum.   I DID see one in .44 Special once, and to this day I regret not buying it.   Makes me wonder if a Lightning could work in .44 Magnum.   

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Those smarter than me, pointed out a firearm has to pass SAAMI specs to be put on the market.
The metalurgy in a modern 1873 Uberti replica is no doubt a mile ahead of the original steel.
I'm not at all spooked about shooting 44 mags in the Uberti.

What remains unclear... can the Uberti tolerate full house 44 mag loads on an extended basis.
My gut tells me the Marlin is better suited for this.
This is pure speculation on my part... and not based in any fact or research.

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HK, niiice .44 family!

the mares leg is definitely a favorite of mine in .44mag

E2D9196D-4AF9-4699-B1BB-1477F03B1420.jpeg

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On 11/29/2020 at 4:57 PM, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

... I would have figured that the 73 was not strong enough for the .44 Magnum.   I DID see one in .44 Special once, and to this day I regret not buying it....

 

Comments like these always make me scratch my head.  Cimarron has always had 44 Spcls in stock more often than not.

 

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8 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

Comments like these always make me scratch my head.  Cimarron has always had 44 Spcls in stock more often than not.

 

 

I meant in stock at a local gun store.   First last and only one I ever so in such a setting.

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I load for my son who shoots a Uberti 73 carbine and a pair of NMV in .44 magnum. 200gr badman RNFP bullets over 4.5 gr Titegroup. I use exactly the same load in my 44WCF. Works excellent, no complaints from the Wartrace Regulators.

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On 11/25/2020 at 11:15 PM, Waymore Loco said:

Hi. Abilene, 

I have Booyah Bullets. I live close to Dodge City Mike. My mistake may have been that I'm trying to shoot a 240 grain SWC. The recoil doesn't bother me. It's actually pretty light. I've used Titegroup, Red Dot, and Trail Boss. The issue is that they hit the target pretty hard. One left a descent ding in the metal. I'm looking to not tear up the targets. So I'm guessing I'm trying to toss to heavy amount of lead. 

if you were casting them yourself, I'd say don't water quench to make the bullets softer, but I doubt anyone out there in buyers land is working to make softer bullets, most people want them harder.

 

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I'm doing this for fun and those guys didn't seem like they were having much fun. 

Hey Waymore when I used to surf in San Diego back when it was a republican state,we always said the best surfer was the one having the most fun...SASS is like that too.I always see guys cussin and kickin when they miss a target or dont like their time.Just have fun or go somewhere else..

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On 11/30/2020 at 9:42 PM, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

Comments like these always make me scratch my head.  Cimarron has always had 44 Spcls in stock more often than not.

 

Glad to hear they’re stocking that caliber now-a-days.   In the early 0’s they had every model in 45 44-40 & 357 (you had to phone in and wait if  you wanted a different caliber).

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6 hours ago, El CupAJoe said:

I doubt anyone out there in buyers land is working to make softer bullets, most people want them harder.

 

I am one of those who want them softer.

I use Ringer Bullets who is willing to make a run of soft cast (BHN=9 for 11,518 psi).
He has a minimum run requirement of 6,000 which I am more than happy to meet.

His bullets are nicely done, and Hi-Tek coated.
I have them in 358-105 and 430-200.

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Besides velocity extremely hard cast bullets will dent targets where a softer alloy will not.  I have a bunch of 10X 44-40 Black Powder rounds that I bought from a fellow shooter that had to get out of the game.. The bullets appear to be cast from Linotype as they are extremely hard and will dent mild steel when fired from my 1860 Henry Rifle at close range (7-10 yrd) targets. AR steel targets don't dent but there is no doubt when I hit one. I have been told that 10X was using Triple 7 in their BP rounds and by the recoil I believe it.

 

As a few others pointed out if you are not having fun you are doing this wrong.

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9 hours ago, Backdoor Trots said:

Hey Waymore when I used to surf in San Diego back when it was a republican state,we always said the best surfer was the one having the most fun...SASS is like that too.I always see guys cussin and kickin when they miss a target or dont like their time.Just have fun or go somewhere else..

I used to race stock cars. I told the crew when it got to be work and not fun we were done. Like I said, I used to race. Life is too short to do something that is fun and not enjoy it. 

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On 11/28/2020 at 7:32 PM, Dapper Dynamite Dick said:

It is below, but it has been working well for me over 8 years now, at least 1,500-2,000 rds per year.

 

Don't tell DDD that half his misses are caused by Pard's blowing them SLOW moving bullets off Course .... 

When I shoot .38 specials loaded with Goex they hit much harder than his wimp .44 loads ...

He has to hold high on the targets with his Rainbow like trajectories,,, or Miss low ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

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On 11/29/2020 at 8:33 AM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Still, not a smart thing to do.

OLG 

If you go to Lymans cast loads for .44 Special, their listed loads go down to 4.4 grains of W231. As a retired Explosive Technician in a Defense Research facility I have over 16 years experience with experimental ammunition and explosives. Before I started experimenting with those loads I had the advice of some of the best PhDs in Ballistics in the country to guide me to my results. I didn't take this lightly but no other load will get me down to 515 fps.

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I did some 44 Magnum testing with the chronograph today. The results are...

5.8 grains of Red Dot = 820 FPS

6 grains of Trail Boss = 785 FPS

5.5 grains of HP-38 = 628 FPS

4.7 grains of Titegroup = 733 FPS

These are averages shot out of a Ruger with a 5 1/2" barrel. 240 grain SWC and Federal 150 primer.

Edited by Waymore Loco
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