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Big Lube 44


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gang,

I got a new 44 spl 72 open top and I probably gonna get another for some pale rider gunfighter. I need a big lube bullet, I prefer 240-250g...no lil 200grainers..anyone know who makes a nice big 44 big lube bullet to shoot with the holy black. Im trying to avoid casting more bullets and i would prefer to pay, especially if they came lubed.....anyone know of such a critter?

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The largest .44's Slim lists on his site are 205gr.  But I've heard sometimes he has other things than listed, so check with him.

http://www.whyteleatherworks.com

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What you are asking for flies in the face of all SASS is, which is going small on bullets and powder charge :)  Honestly, as long as you were using a soft BP lube most any bullet with a decent lube groove would work in the pistols, for at least 2-3 stages, maybe more. I have molds for heavy 44's that would work for me. Or if I was not going to shoot that many and really wanted a true Big Lube I would just run some .454 PRS's through my .429 sizer die. I have done it before(not on purpose)! and it works, but not much of a crimp groove left.  But unless you were going for some difficult knock down targets I don't really see the need. If you want some more recoil just run a compressed load of fffg instead of ffg. 

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9 hours ago, ORNERY OAF said:

gang,

I got a new 44 spl 72 open top and I probably gonna get another for some pale rider gunfighter. I need a big lube bullet, I prefer 240-250g...no lil 200grainers..anyone know who makes a nice big 44 big lube bullet to shoot with the holy black. Im trying to avoid casting more bullets and i would prefer to pay, especially if they came lubed.....anyone know of such a critter?

Bear Creek has moly coat 240rnfp that I use.

They work fine for BP.

OLG 

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Lumpy: I have heard this before, and it makes me wonder. Whatever happened to the "you have to have a soft lube to keep the carbon fouling down or you will  lose accuracy"? Is this just a myth? By works fine I assume you mean you can shoot a complete SASS match with no special attention to your pistols and rifle? No swabbing, bore snaking, blow tubing, or adding lube to the nose of the bullet? I am always willing to learn new things and save myself some labor. I load for 4 of us here and I can always use some more time savers. So, a more complete explanation of your shooting techniques would be appreciated. I reamed out my Opentops to 44-40 when I was told it wouldn't work, so I am not constrained by convention.

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Usually shooters who use moly coated, smokeless lubed or now the hi-tek coated bullets are using bore snakes and other methods after each stage. Some of the subs can use non black powder lubed bullets successfully. Also some people when they mention black powder are lumping all the subs together along with real black powder so unless they are specific you don't know what they are using.

I'm with Slim as far as using big lube bullets with bp lube and real black powder and being able to easily shoot 5 or 6 stages without the need to clean and use moosemilk or lube between each stage. Some of them consider us to be lazy for not wanting to do maintenance during the match. Both methods will get you through a match

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5 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Bear Creek has moly coat 240rnfp that I use.

They work fine for BP.

OLG 

 

@Springfield Slim SASS #24733 I was wondering the same thing.  Loading APP I use HY-TEK coated bullets without a barrel issue, but I always thought you had to use a lubed bullet with real BP.  But I know that OLG knows way more than I do with that stuff and if he said it works then I for one won’t doubt him.  By the way OLG when did you become a “guest”?  There’s no SASS # listed on your post ;)

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46 minutes ago, Tequila Shooter said:

 

@Springfield Slim SASS #24733 I was wondering the same thing.  Loading APP I use HY-TEK coated bullets without a barrel issue, but I always thought you had to use a lubed bullet with real BP.  But I know that OLG knows way more than I do with that stuff and if he said it works then I for one won’t doubt him.  By the way OLG when did you become a “guest”?  There’s no SASS # listed on your post ;)

Long story on the SASS # deal. It was my doing. 

The Bear Creek moly coat work very well with real BP.

OLG

 

 

 

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Ok. But again. When you say they work very well with bp does that mean shooting a days stages with no maintenance or is it cleaning between stages? Mediocre results can get you through a match at current SASS matches with the close and large targets. Can you shoot accurately in long range pistol caliber rifle side matches? "Works very well" isn't much information. Have you done any side by side testing other then both methods can hit a 20 inch target at 5 yards?

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Ive thought of powder coating rifle bullets & then lubing them with BP lube.Anyone done this?

                                                                                                                                                                                      Largo

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Howdy Pard

 

My no. 1 , go-to heavy bullet for 44 Russian, 44 Special, and 44 Mag is the Lyman 429244.  It’s essentially an Elmer Keith design but modified to use a gas check.  With relatively soft alloys it’s around 250 grains. With linotype   , mine run closer to 240 gr. It’s an attractive bullet. Long and semi-wadcutter in shape. The length gives it plenty of bearing surface for the rifling. Gives excellent accuracy in each of my various 44’s. The semi-wadcutter shape punches nice round, easy-to-see holes in paper targets.
 

For my period 73 Winchester I’ve even loaded some in 44-40 brass. Used a mild load of powder and had to seat it fairly deeply to bring the loaded cartridge to the C.O.L.  Perhaps not very practical but I was rewarded with some excellent accuracy.

 

SASS rules don’t allow gas-checked bullets but in my experience the 429244 works reasonably well without the gas check and shot as a plain-base bullet. I use smokeless powders but I suspect it would perform with the Holy Black as long as the appropriate bullet lube was utilized.

 

Side note, in my 45LC pistols and rifles, a companion bullet, Lyman 452490, has been a winner for me.

 

Just my $0.02. Good shooting and happy trails.

 

Fort Reno Kid

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LG, I like the idea of the powder coated bullets. Just bought a bunch for my 44-40s...they have a nice lube groove on them, and I'm thinking of pan lubing them with my homemade black powder lube...might work for the bigger moly coated 44s ...hmmmm...also to clear up a couple earlier comments, when I said holy black, that was specific, holy black does not jnclude the bp subs.....never used them,never will, im a goex guy. And as far as flying in the face if sass who are going g to smaller bullets and lighter powder....screw that, I shoot palerider category, I load my guns like I'm gonna get into a gun fight in the saloon or out in the street, load them like i would chasing off rustlers not mice. No pooftinkers or mouse farts load in old ornery's guns...load em like you need em

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Keep us informed on how they work. I load full load 44-40's for myself and my daughter. We like being the smokiest members of the posse!

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On 11/20/2020 at 11:02 AM, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

Lumpy: I have heard this before, and it makes me wonder. Whatever happened to the "you have to have a soft lube to keep the carbon fouling down or you will  lose accuracy"? Is this just a myth? By works fine I assume you mean you can shoot a complete SASS match with no special attention to your pistols and rifle? No swabbing, bore snaking, blow tubing, or adding lube to the nose of the bullet? I am always willing to learn new things and save myself some labor. I load for 4 of us here and I can always use some more time savers. So, a more complete explanation of your shooting techniques would be appreciated. I reamed out my Opentops to 44-40 when I was told it wouldn't work, so I am not constrained by convention.

I sloppy lube the guns with Bore Butter before the match, and usually have no issues. 

At worst, I will put a quick spray shot of WD-40 in the gun if needed.

OLG 

Edited by The Original Lumpy Gritz
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I went with acme bullets, who I buy my 44-40s from, cause they had them in stock....same bullet but they ship in a snazzy wood box! Soon as they arrive gonna try to pan lube them

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14 minutes ago, ORNERY OAF said:

I went with acme bullets, who I buy my 44-40s from, cause they had them in stock....same bullet but they ship in a snazzy wood box! Soon as they arrive gonna try to pan lube them

 

Or just put lube over the cylinder chamber faces like C&B shooters do.  When I use Desperado 250g 45colts, this is what I do. After each stage I just run a plastic bore brush down the barrel.  I save big loobs for the rifle.

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19 minutes ago, Cemetery said:

 

Or just put lube over the cylinder chamber faces like C&B shooters do.  When I use Desperado 250g 45colts, this is what I do. After each stage I just run a plastic bore brush down the barrel.  I save big loobs for the rifle.

Lol,never thought if that..i use crisco when i shoot frontiersman.....if the pan lube fails, that is the ticket

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29 minutes ago, ORNERY OAF said:

Lol,never thought if that..i use crisco when i shoot frontiersman.....if the pan lube fails, that is the ticket

 

Yeah, pan-lubing is a hassle.  I stopped that when I bought an old lubrisizer, but I don't even waste time on that with pistol bullets.  I have always used standard cowboy bullets with lube melted out (no lube) in my BP pistol rounds.  I use butter-flavored Crisco over the first two rounds to be fired.  Easy to do at the loading table.  When I first heard of this long ago the guy just put it over the first round to be fired.  I figured if one was good, two would be better.  But the fact is that the blast from the first shot is going to blow the lube out of the next cylinder.  That's okay because a film of it may still be on the bullet and over the front of the cylinder.  But I think putting it over more than 2 rounds is probably a waste of time.   I think the butter-flavored crisco has a somewhat higher melting point than regular Crisco, but if you wanted to lube up the front of all the cylinders you would need something thicker, probably with beeswax.  Doing the first two with the BFC has worked for me for over 20 years, bore needs no maintenance, guns clean up easy.  YMMV.

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Honestly, as long as you were using a soft BP lube most any bullet with a decent lube groove would work in the pistols, for at least 2-3 stages, maybe more.

Slim, absolutely correct.... With the correct lube, the original Ideal 454190, 45 caliber bullet will shoot all day long with no leading,  no lack of lube starvation or foul binding in revolvers ... shooting black powder

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It's simple and uncomplicated loading big lubes for revolvers and rifles in 44 Russian, 44 special and 44-40 with real bp and shooting a days worth of stages with no maintenance needed as if you were shooting smokeless. Because of the way they need to be packaged they do cost more. 

In Ione years ago they used targets occasionally that they called bacon strips. Long but only a few inches wide and further out then todays usual. I considered running a bore snake first but then thought it would be a good test for the big lubes. No misses.

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Ok, change 25,lol...acme sent me an email saying they were out of stock and refunded my card...so I took lumpygrits advice and called bear creek, who are just awesome to deal with fyi, and they don't make the 240 swc anymore...so the guy checked to see what he had, Ihe came back with a 246g 44 Russian bullet. He said they was .430, I said oh ya! 3 decent grooves and a big bullet. Gonna try them. Ordered 500 to test them out

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What made the bullet a "44 Russian bullet" exactly? That is a cartridge designation, not a bullet style.

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I looked it up, it is a round nose with 2 lube groves and a crimp groove. Should work in pistols but I wouldn't use them in a lever gun due the the pointier nose.

Moly 44russian.webp

Edited by Springfield Slim SASS #24733
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Yaa buddy, these 246grainers will work just fine!!!! Excellent guy to deal with, im gonna be ordering from bear creek from now on!! And yes. No pointies in a rifle, do t matter,my rifles are 44-40s....these are for my 44 spl 72 open tops!

20201129_003515.jpg

20201129_003437.jpg

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On 11/25/2020 at 1:13 PM, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

What made the bullet a "44 Russian bullet" exactly? That is a cartridge designation, not a bullet style.

That is the style bullet used in 44 Russian cartridges in the late 1800s-early 1900s. Also same bullet in early 44 Specials.

Rex :D

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I'm a 44 Shooter myself. 

A few years back I went to shooting BP only .

I cast my own but I use a Lee RNFP 200 gr mold .

I pan lube with 60/40 Beeswax and lard .

Zero issues with pistols or rifles myself. 

I will say once i switched to using APP powder though clean up is much better and its self lubricated anyways .

So you really have Zero issues with using regular bullets .

So saith the Rooster 

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Rooster, gonna pan lube them today with beeswax/crisco lube I make....I use butter flavor crisco for pan lubing(smells good)..someone suggested greasing the cylinders like i do in cap and ball, so if pan lubing doesn't work, I will try that...either way, to the loading bench we go today!

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To much work for me! No way would I pan lube for my wife, 2 kids and myself. 

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I cast 44-40 bullets using a Dick Dastardly mold holds plenty of lube. I can run my pistols an entire match and they do not need any special attention during the match. I use a bees wax and crisco lube. I also use the same bullet for 44 Russian same pistols different cylinders. Either one gets a full load of Goex ff.

 

 

Sgt H

 

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