Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum
Creeker, SASS #43022

Better Equipment Makes You Better

Recommended Posts

Funny how times change.

Back when I started a good competition gun for other action sports was over $1500 - 2000.

 

I could get outfitted with CAS guns for about $1100 or a little less.  I could have gone less with used Ruger Blackhawks back then but didn't want to do "modern." as the category was back then.  New pistols were $300 - normally tax included.  A rifle the same and either a 97 or SxS for about $150.  I saw Blackhawks in the $125 range.

 

And back then we didn't have much for leather so that wasn't too bad either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The title of the original post should have included “up to a point.”  Bad gear makes things a lot harder, but the best gear will not make a poor shooter great.  
 

However, I agree that there are some guns that should not be recommended for this sport.  That does not mean that they are outright bad guns (though some really are) but that they are just not good choices for the sport.  But hey, everyone has a dream and they can do what they like in this sport as in life.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

<rant>

I'm in about 5 large at this point, with more to come. And 5 large was my budget. I did buy a few items beyond what I would consider the minimum, and that is because I wanted them.

 

Still not bought reloading equipment. I can't afford this sport if I don't load my own.

 

I can't help but wonder if I am one of the people referenced in the OP, one of those who is seen as not in support of "the best."

 

So to hopefully clear the air if I am one of the referenced individuals... Yes, better equipment will make you (and me) faster. But if the best is required just to get started, I will never get started. The budget would have to be at least 10 large in that case.T

Because I'm here to have fun.

</rant>

John I don't know where you got those numbers from, but I wish you had shopped around a bit because they're off by quite a bit.

$10,000 to get in the game with competition guns, please.

 

1. Slicked up Uberti $1600 

2. Set of Ruger SASS NMV plus spring kits $1500

3. SKB slicked up. $1400-$1500, call it $1450

4. Decent rig $600

5. Dillon SDB $400

6. 3,000 pieces of 38 brass $115

7. 1 lb jug of Clays $30

8. 5,000 125 grain bullets $220

9. 5,000 Federal SP primers $190 (if you could find them)

10. 4 cases of Featherlites $500

Total $6,605

 

That total includes enough ammo for almost a year of shooting depending upon volume.  Exclude that and your cost of equipment is $5500, including a lifetime warrantied Dillon. Take your time and you could probably shave another $400-500 off that total.  Those are all top caliber competition guns. Want the Rugers slicked up, dry fire them a few thousand times. 

 

You didn't own jeans before this? Western shirt? Boots?  Come on, you can get all of those for less than $200.  Used gun carts for less than $200 or make your own. You can still have everything you need and a years worth of ammo for less than $7,000.

 

With regard to your last statement that I bolded, I have news for you ALL OF US are in this for fun.  It's just our definition of fun may not be the same as yours.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Doc Coles SASS 1188 said:

The title of the original post should have included “up to a point.”  Bad gear makes things a lot harder, but the best gear will not make a poor shooter great.  
 

However, I agree that there are some guns that should not be recommended for this sport.  That does not mean that they are outright bad guns (though some really are) but that they are just not good choices for the sport.  But hey, everyone has a dream and they can do what they like in this sport as in life.  

I think the thread title is 'Better equipment makes you better' not the best gear makes a poor shooter great.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rolling my eye and shaking my head hearing things rattle around.

 

Can better equipment potentially make you a better shooter?  Better shooter?  No.  Better times perhaps.  Now practice and just shooting a lot has the potential to make you a better shooter AND faster times.

 

Much of 'smoothing out the action' and other such tuning is, IMO premature wear, and it the long run, being run fast and hard, is going to bring about failure much sooner.

 

I could provide tons of verbiage as to why I think such things, but seriously ain't nobody care what I think.  If they disagree, they disagree no matter how passionately I state my points.

 

Carry on boys and girls, cheers.

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gads.  I don't even know what to say to all of this.

 

No, better gear doesn't make you better.  That's a fallacious argument.  Better is only achieved with practice.  What I will say, and agree to is this. 

  • The right gear will not get in your way. 
  • The right gear won't break down and leave you with that niggling "is something going to break today" thought in the back of your head.
  • The right gear fits your hands, your body, and your personal ergonomics.  Again, this keeps it from getting in your way and keeps you from fighting your gear.
  • The right gear puts you in the correct head space to perform at your best.
  • The right gear is "invisible" and doesn't take any thought or attention whatsoever
  • The right gear does include the right ammo (I've written articles on this one)

I do think that's the point Creeker is driving at. 

 

However, the right gear doesn't necessarily mean "all of the latest mods and widgets".  It does mean that it's the gear that works best for you. 

 

Everyone is different.  The right gear for me may not be the right gear for you. 

 

I hope that made sense.

 

Doc

 

Edited by Doc Shapiro
  • Like 8
  • Thanks 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps I am unable to communicate clearly and should simply shut up. 

But we all know that aint gonna happen.

 

Better equipment will make you better.

You may have to decide if the amount of improvement is offset by the cost of better equipment but better equipment will certainly make you perform better.

 

Eliminate all other variables - pit the same shooter against the same array a hundred times.

 

50 times with stock 92 and 50 times with a tuned 73 - which do you believe will show better performance?

 

50 times with a stock Stoeger and 50 times with a tuned SKB?

 

But I often see that just because "somebody" ran that 92/ Stoeger/etc. really fast on the internet - or 25 years ago, a legend of our game won EOT with such and such...

 

That that particular firearm is "just as capable" or "suitable" as another. 

 

Or if your skillset cannot yet outrun gun X - you will see no benefit from gun Y.

 

The above is patently untrue.

 

I am no good at Golf - but even in my unskilled hands - Carbon fiber shafts drive further than wood.

I am no good at Tennis - but even in my ham hands - oversized heads are more forgiving and accurate than smaller.

And I am certainly not a bike racer - but even my old fat self will be able to achieve a faster speed on a race bike than a Schwinn beachcomber.

 

Debate cost/ value versus performance all you wish:

A SKB MIGHT not be worth the premium over the Stoeger.

AND "somebody" may be able to run the Stoeger faster than most can run a SKB.

A tuned 73 MIGHT not be worth the premium over a 92.

AND "somebody" may be able to run a 92 faster than most can run a tuned 73.

 

That is for the shooter to decide for themselves - provide them with ALL the information, all the variables - but stop implying that equipment does not make a difference.

 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Perhaps I am unable to communicate clearly and should simply shut up. 

But we all know that aint gonna happen.

 

Better equipment will make you better.

You may have to decide if the amount of improvement is offset by the cost of better equipment but better equipment will certainly make you perform better.

 

Eliminate all other variables - pit the same shooter against the same array a hundred times.

 

50 times with stock 92 and 50 times with a tuned 73 - which do you believe will show better performance?

 

50 times with a stock Stoeger and 50 times with a tuned SKB?

 

But I often see that just because "somebody" ran that 92/ Stoeger/etc. really fast on the internet - or 25 years ago, a legend of our game won EOT with such and such...

 

That that particular firearm is "just as capable" or "suitable" as another. 

 

Or if your skillset cannot yet outrun gun X - you will see no benefit from gun Y.

 

The above is patently untrue.

 

I am no good at Golf - but even in my unskilled hands - Carbon fiber shafts drive further than wood.

I am no good at Tennis - but even in my ham hands - oversized heads are more forgiving and accurate than smaller.

And I am certainly not a bike racer - but even my old fat self will be able to achieve a faster speed on a race bike than a Schwinn beachcomber.

 

Debate cost/ value versus performance all you wish:

A SKB MIGHT not be worth the premium over the Stoeger.

AND "somebody" may be able to run the Stoeger faster than most can run a SKB.

A tuned 73 MIGHT not be worth the premium over a 92.

AND "somebody" may be able to run a 92 faster than most can run a tuned 73.

 

That is for the shooter to decide for themselves - provide them with ALL the information, all the variables - but stop implying that equipment does not make a difference.

 

 

Creeker, you've made my point.  Better equipment doesn't make you better.  What better equipment does is NOT get in your way and allows you to perform at your current ability level (assuming you've got your head together).  The only way to really get better is practice. 

 

This is a difference between the equipment preventing you from performing to your ability because it's getting in the way, or the equipment being a non-issue so you can shoot to your ability.

 

I think we're driving to the same point.  Just using different language to get there.

 

By the way, what drove you to start this thread in the first place?  It's a path I've run down more times that I can count.

 

Doc

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:ph34r:  Reminds me of when we flat tracked at Ascot Park in the mid to late '60's.  We told each other, and ourselves, that the latest and best would not NECESSARILY turn you into a star, but poor or unreliable equipment would certainly prevent you from ever approaching that level. 

I remember the feeling of getting my first set of hardened and properly cut and grooved Pirelli tires........  felt like the bike was on rails and I could do no wrong.  Huge boost to confidence, and corner speed.

Our point here is the same.  My first couple of years were spent getting guns, AMMO, and leather such that there were no failures during a six stage match, let alone a BIG match of 2 days and 12 stages......

Now that I'm older, wiser and reasonably well equipped, I find the game much more enjoyable and relaxing.  It took a while, and some $$$ spread over time.  And personally, the satisfaction level achieved is worth it all.

Isn't that why we're all here?  To find enjoyment?  We can each do that in our own way.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect it was my comment that sparked this debate.

 

Maybe I didn't communicate my idea well... so I'll try again.  Better equipment is a subjective concept.  A comparative analysis of various articles.  A slicked up '92 is inarguably "better" than a stock one, (in most folk's analysis, even mine).  Same goes for whatever pistol, shotgun and rifle you wish to name.  Better equipment, be it firearms, ammo or gear, doesn't make anyone a better shooter.  It "allows" you to become better.  Without the drive and willingness to put forth an effort, all the "better" equipment in the world won't improve your times.  The mental aspect of utilizing that "better" equipment is far more important than the equipment itself.  If your practice consists of the local monthly match or even just once a week, getting better equipment should make that practice and your matches more enjoyable... is that being a "better" shooter?  For some, the answer is, yes.  For others, not so much.

 

I'll say it again... improvement comes from practice, practice and then more practice.  Good equipment doesn't hurt, but... it isn't the end all, be all of improvement.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Griff!  Cheers!

 

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

but stop implying that equipment does not make a difference.

 

It doesn't to me.  If I shoot 70 second stages with my antique guns vs 50 seconds with my most modern guns, I've had just as much satisfaction, maybe more.  

 

I do also shoot a CZ-USA Hammer Coach gun and it goes to the matches often.  I have two sets of dealer "tuned" sixguns - a pair of Taylor's Smoke Wagon Deluxe and a pair of Cimarron Eleminator 8s that are suppose to be tuned. The "tuned" handguns,  I don't shoot so much because they are no better than the garden variety Uberti or Pietta with Wolff springs and action clean-up.  I have a Winchester Miroku 73 that came with a Pioneer short stroke kit but it was butchered up so I restored it back to factory.   The Winchester Miroku stays at home. 

 

I like Marlin 1894s better and have several that I've smoothed up some and have lighter springs installed,  etc.  Sawmill Mary has her Widder Marlin 1894 in 44WCF that she's very proud of. My tune-up jobs fall short of Widder's work but better better than stock.

 

I have accumulated a modest collection of Colt SAA. I love shooting them.   One second generation in 45Colt shows evidence that it's been professionally tuned and does have a nice action.

 

My assessment of a good match is that:  I made it all the way through and nobody got hurt. My guns and ammo functioned without a problem. I didn't get a "P". All the better if I shot a clean match. I expect my total time will put me on the bottom half of the time spreadsheet on overall time but I do ok in my category. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

Creeker, you've made my point.  Better equipment doesn't make you better.  What better equipment does is NOT get in your way and allows you to perform at your current ability level (assuming you've got your head together).  The only way to really get better is practice. 

 

 

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and propose that you and Creeker are in 100% agreement.  I think the only difference in your statements is semantics. Essentially I'm reading the same thing from both of you.  (With the understanding that I still read at the 5th grade level. :wacko:)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and propose that you and Creeker are in 100% agreement.  I think the only difference in your statements is semantics. Essentially I'm reading the same thing from both of you.  (With the understanding that I still read at the 5th grade level. :wacko:)

When did you graduate from the fourth grade?

 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Ace_of_Hearts said:

When did you graduate from the fourth grade?

 

 

They just told me to go home and not come back. Does that count as graduation?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/12/2020 at 2:23 AM, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I read a lot of posts on the wire - even some that I really don't have a lot of interest in specifically; but I enjoy seeing folks interactions.

 

One thing I often see is, shooters telling others that their choice of equipment is not nearly as important as some others claim.

 

An example: 

X model gun is just as good as Y model gun for most shooters in our game because "somebody" shot the X model gun really fast in a youtube video and "somebody else" won a world championship with it 25 years ago.

 

And if "those somebodies" can do that  with the X gun faster than the average shooter can shoot the Y gun - then obviously the average shooter doesn't need a Y gun because they can't even use the full potential of the so called slower gun.

 

Please stop doing this.

It is a disservice to anyone who might actually take this bad advice to heart.

 

In any activity; certain "some bodies" may be able to take lesser equipment and still out perform you - but so what? 

 

A professional bike racer might be able to trade you his carbon fiber race bike for your Schwinn Beachcomber with fat tires, white wicker basket and shiny chrome bell and then still beat you in a race.

 

So obviously even the Schwinn is faster than you were capable of using it.  And it's true; you may never get the full potential out of a race bike - But the very simple question remains, "On which bike, are YOU faster?"

 

Better equipment makes you better.

 

Use lesser equipment if you want to.

For appearance, for historical significance, for economics - for any reason you choose.

 

But stop telling people better equipment won't improve them because they can't yet make full use of what they already have or because "somebody" is faster than them with lesser equipment.

 

That is simply untrue.

Matter of opinion.   Ive had top  level guns. I've shot Jimmy spur  revolvers as well as other top smiths, several top name 73s  .  Top name slicked up skbs and browning.   The only time i agree you need top quality is with leather.  Cheap leather will make you hate life. 

 

 Top end guns didn't improve my time any.   In fact the skbs slowed my shotgun times considerable and were less reliable with featherlites. 

 

 The first time I ever set foot on a sass range I was told I was wasting the clubs time even showing up because of the guns i had.   Mismatched clones, and a steoger .  So I packed my stuff back up and left.   It took 2 years for me to even think of trying again.. 

 

  My wife has earned several speed titles with her 97 and is only getting faster each year.  The only thing that has been done to that shotgun in the 90+ years since it left the factory, was to get its barrel and stock trimmed by me. 

 

 I purely love beating guys that brag about there 1500+ dollar skbs,    with my $350 stock 12 year old steoger.   100 percent stock  auto saftey still engaged.    Even better I love doing it with my h&r single shot.  You want to see egg on somebody's face beat a state champion running his normal gear using a stock  single shot.   

 

 Anyone who tells a newbie that they need to have 5000 dollars worth of high end slicked up guns has an agenda.  Either to feel better about overspending on their own guns or they are trying to sell something.   Someone who has reliable guns and knows how to practice will knock the snot out of a wanna be who tried to buy the victory. 

 

   As for your bike  analogy ... they ride the high end bike because that's what they are paid to ride.   If a different sponcer offered them more to ride something else they would.  Or you would only see 1 brand and model of bike being ridden by everyone.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, evil dogooder said:

Matter of opinion.

I lose a lot of respect when responses are being deliberately obtuse.

 

You MAY be able to beat a State Champion using an H&R single shot (not sure what state or what category - but hey, you made the claim) but regardless; that would be a testament to your SKILL - not the quality of the equipment.

 

If you are determined to delve into the absurd:

Go ahead, run a stage with 

Your H&R single shot shotgun,

a factory stock Taurus Thunderbolt

and 

a pair of Nagant revolvers.

 

And then again with your normal gear.

Then go ahead and claim better equipment does not improve performance.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to clarify. 

Some extreme action jobs are advancing the wear on the gun.  Normally good smiths do not encourage or even do most of that (unless the customer insists) because the smith knows the customer will not be happy when the gun breaks early.  Most smiths I know won't even do it when the customer insists - just not worth the hassle to them as it is not only more work but much more risk.

 

But MANY guns come with burrs, overly heavy springs and slight issues that greatly increase wear and reduce equipment life because they greatly increase wear. 

So having the gun smoothed to reduce those cutting burrs or edges, lighter springs to reduce stress and proper timing and adjustment to also reduce stress make the gun run much smoother and last a LOT longer.  It is so much fun to run a machine that is nice and smooth, even the more "quirky" guns of history.

 

So if you cannot afford or cannot do some yourself, enjoy what you have.  If you are able to get the gun "optimized" - whatever model it is, then enjoy that as well.

 

I still enjoy my model 92 rifles that I slicked up (much better the second time I worked on them).  But I know my Marlin, although not a widdermatic, is more efficient and also fun.  But my 66/73 rifles are what I almost always for my matches.  But remember that all these were "great bargains" compared to what I would have to spend the last several years.  I've been greatly blessed.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Creeker my friend, all your examples and comparisons aren't going to change any minds or opinions.

 

Cause everybody knows that a good pair of tennis shoes will not help ya walk better on hot pavement over being barefooted..... ;)

 

..........Widder

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Creeker my friend, all your examples and comparisons aren't going to change any minds or opinions.

Cause everybody knows that a good pair of tennis shoes will not help ya walk better on hot pavement over being barefooted..... ;)

..........Widder

Now Widder... you know that comparison would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight.   A more apt comparison would be cowboy boots to tennis shoes... and since tennis shoes are not legal attire... ;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Griff said:

Now Widder... you know that comparison would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight.   A more apt comparison would be cowboy boots to tennis shoes... and since tennis shoes are not legal attire... ;)

Better yet bring I’ll take my car and one of the naysayers can take a Chryler minivan, then we head to the track to see if equipment makes a difference.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Better yet bring I’ll take my car and one of the naysayers can take a Chry(s)ler minivan, then we head to the track to see if equipment makes a difference.

Well... equipment does make a difference.  Whether that's an automatic "improvement" in performance is the question.  Every time I've bettered my equipment, I had to slow down and "re-learn" that equipment.  After learning and practicing with that equipment, an improvement was noted.  The question I've always had, was had I simply improved/increased my practice, would my improvement have been as much, as fast, or... 

 

But, hey... what do I know... I've only been doin' this 35 years!  And I shoot Frontiersman.  And still shoot at about the pace I did when "bullseye" shooting!  I'll let you know when I get my short-stroked Henry Trapper! ;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

John I don't know where you got those numbers from, but I wish you had shopped around a bit because they're off by quite a bit.

$10,000 to get in the game with competition guns, please.

 

1. Slicked up Uberti $1600 

2. Set of Ruger SASS NMV plus spring kits $1500

3. SKB slicked up. $1400-$1500, call it $1450

4. Decent rig $600

5. Dillon SDB $400

6. 3,000 pieces of 38 brass $115

7. 1 lb jug of Clays $30

8. 5,000 125 grain bullets $220

9. 5,000 Federal SP primers $190 (if you could find them)

10. 4 cases of Featherlites $500

Total $6,605

 

That total includes enough ammo for almost a year of shooting depending upon volume.  Exclude that and your cost of equipment is $5500, including a lifetime warrantied Dillon. Take your time and you could probably shave another $400-500 off that total.  Those are all top caliber competition guns. Want the Rugers slicked up, dry fire them a few thousand times. 

 

You didn't own jeans before this? Western shirt? Boots?  Come on, you can get all of those for less than $200.  Used gun carts for less than $200 or make your own. You can still have everything you need and a years worth of ammo for less than $7,000.

 

With regard to your last statement that I bolded, I have news for you ALL OF US are in this for fun.  It's just our definition of fun may not be the same as yours.

You are off in your estimates of what equipment costs, at least when you are paying for action work on revolvers and rifles. $2000 for a set of non SASS revolvers, another $2000 for a rifle and still another $2000 for an SKB all of this is with action jobs etc. Last Guncart I bought was $600 used, it is a nice cart I would buy it again. Then ammo, somewhat more than 10,000 rounds plus 1500 sg shells. For our last trip of 2 months we had 4500 rounds apiece and came with almost enough for a couple of matches. The 10,000 round estimate is on the light side.

kR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Kid Rich said:

You are off in your estimates of what equipment costs, at least when you are paying for action work on revolvers and rifles. $2000 for a set of non SASS revolvers, another $2000 for a rifle and still another $2000 for an SKB all of this is with action jobs etc. Last Guncart I bought was $600 used, it is a nice cart I would buy it again. Then ammo, somewhat more than 10,000 rounds plus 1500 sg shells. For our last trip of 2 months we had 4500 rounds apiece and came with almost enough for a couple of matches. The 10,000 round estimate is on the light side.

kR

Cody Conagher is selling 1873’s for less than $1,600. I think you can get a Fast Eddie (best in the business) SKB for less than $1,700. Ruger Vaqueros on GB for well under $2,000 a pair. Wolff spring kits cost what $30-40 for two?
 

Guncarts are cheap if you’re buying for function. Heck I gave two away for free to new shooters. One was free to me and the other cost me $40. Both worked fine.


1 shooter, 52 matches a year, six stages per match at 20 rounds of metallic cartridge a stage = 6,240 rounds. 1 box of shotgun a match times 52 matches = just over 5 cases.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/12/2020 at 9:33 PM, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

John, first I don't think Creeker is telling anyone they have to buy the latest and greatest to get into this sport. In my opinion he is making reference to quotes such as yours, from a post underlined above, where a shooter asked about a worthy replacement for an SKB. He is asking if there is anything that would be as good as an SKB, not why he shouldn't pay $700 more for one gun over another. 

 

I, like many people started with what I could afford and took many years before I could upgrade much and I think everyone should start with what they can afford. But if they ask questions about what is better I'll give them my opinion and not tell them they aren't fast enough to move up.

 

Maybe I'm totally miss-reading your point and if so I apologize.

 

Randy

I finally had the time to go back and look up my post and that thread. I'm wondering if I was mixing up my response with another thread I read just before... Or if I misread the OP in that thread.

 

Anyway, while I stand by my opinion in that thread, I do acknowledge my post did not contribute to answering the OPs question.

Edited by John Kloehr
Add missing word "time"
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Kid Rich said:

Last Guncart I bought was $600 used, it is a nice cart I would buy it again.

 

Papa Dave gun cart. $325 NIB. 

 

http://www.papadaveguncarts.com/page04.html

 

Even rugged gear can get you a new 5 gun cart for less than 500.

 

https://ruggedgear.com/shooting-carts/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Perhaps I am unable to communicate clearly and should simply shut up. 

Please don't, this is a good discussion. Even if my posts are part of why you started this thread, I do not want you to shut up.

Quote

But we all know that aint gonna happen.

Good!

Edited by John Kloehr
Spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

 

Papa Dave gun cart. $325 NIB. 

 

http://www.papadaveguncarts.com/page04.html

 

Even rugged gear can get you a new 5 gun cart for less than 500.

 

https://ruggedgear.com/shooting-carts/

 

My first cart was my most expensive.  Had $50 in it.  Current cart has $9 in it.  Suits me fine (though I still want to win Yul's raffle cart).  And I don't think it makes me shoot any slower.  :)  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

My first cart was my most expensive.  Had $50 in it.  Current cart has $9 in it.  Suits me fine (though I still want to win Yul's raffle cart).  And I don't think it makes me shoot any slower.  :)  

My first, and only, cart was built at a scrap wood and supplies from around the house. I did have to buy a length of threaded rod for an axle.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cost of the guns is really a drop in the bucket.  When I was practicing, I was shooting something like 75,000 rounds a year for several years (about 3/4 of them were 45 colt rather than 38 spl).  I've shot over 800,000 rounds in the last 21 years (I know that because I saved the box tops for boxes of 1000 primers).  Add that cost up.  :wacko:

 

In the end, we spend money where are passions are.  Be it family (at the time, we didn't have kids), hobbies, house, cars, etc.  Those things change over time.  What we were passionate about 15 years ago may not be where our interests lie now.  I've been spending money recently on gear for playing bass guitar.  But we've got enough socked away for the kids college education. And can make all the bill payments.

 

I guess the real questions are: what are you passionate about, how much are you willing to spend to pursue that passion, and how much work are you willing to put in?

Edited by Doc Shapiro
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Frankly, I was able to pull a pretty good living out of setting folks up with better equipment.  Besides, really user friendly equipment makes the game just that much more FUNNER!!

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

 

Eliminate all other variables - pit the same shooter against the same array a hundred times.

 

50 times with stock 92 and 50 times with a tuned 73 - which do you believe will show better performance?

 

50 times with a stock Stoeger and 50 times with a tuned SKB?

 

 

Well, I think the above makes sense.  If a shooter tries a stock 92 and then switches to a tuned up 73, that shooter will probably do better.   I have an Armi San Marco 92, and when it was stock, it was all but unusable.  It was the first gun I ever had an action job done to, not because I wanted to, but because I had to.   There was no way that gun was gonna run as well as even an untuned 73.   But here's the kicker.   It was THAT gun that had the problem.  I also have a stock Winchester 92.   It's as slick as any tuned reproduction, and works every time.   When I compare it to my stock Winchester 73, my performance with both guns is about the same.   Maybe the 73 has a slight edge, but not a huge one.   On the other hand, I can personally out perform both of them with my, stock AWA Lightning.   This is what works for me.

 

And as far as the SxS goes, I'll take my Parkers over either of the above options.

 

In other words, I do see some "betterness" depending on what I use.   But, I still feel that if I had never tried and fallen in love the Lightning, that I'd have gotten better and better with the lever guns, and would do just as well with them.   As long as the gun works the way it is supposed to, and that's a BIG proviso, I feel it's more up to the shooter to find what works best for him, and then for him to refine his technique with chosen guns to be as best as he can be.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coffin Maker said it all!

 

Better gear makes it funner!!!

 

Dependable gear makes it more successful.

SLICKER, FUNNER, DENDABLE GEAR MAKES IT A LOT  MORE SUCCESSFUL.

And, funner, dependable, slicker, smoother, faster, more dependable gear make it a WINNER!!!!!   Regardless of  where you place in any event!!!!

To try and WIN with all 9 top gear equipment variables and leave the tenth as an ungiven is asking for runner-up.

 

Nine out of ten is like running NASCAR wIth re- treads!!!

 

Ol'  #4

Edited by Ol Number4
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yo 4!  Funner <!> Better.  Funner is subjective.  Better is objective as measured by a timer.  I maintain that slicked up better gear doesn't make a shooter better, it just stops getting in the way.  Funner is another story altogether.  And Funner can involve old gear that's ratty as can be but has a story and so makes it meaningful to use.  2 very different things.

 

Hope you're well!

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.