Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 I hate to ask, but what are the current thoughts on CAS if the proposed ban on lead ammo for "sport shooting" becomes reality...? Legislation looming in California, but unfortunately could spread. A quick glance at the Interweb shows .38 copper bullets at 50¢ to 72¢ apiece. Primer shortage aside, $10 - $15 a stage can get kinda pricey. And then comes lead-free shotshells, assuming we can adapt to targets that can be safely used with steel shot... Pending legislation in California, but certainly could spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 Bismuth Shot All target sports will drive the development of cheap target ammo. Copper bullets and steel targets are not a good combination. The copper will crater even AR500 steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 I would think some one could mix powdered tungsten with polymer and make decent bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D. Daily Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: Bismuth Shot All target sports will drive the development of cheap target ammo. Copper bullets and steel targets are not a good combination. The copper will crater even AR500 steel. Crooked River Pete has it right. powdered metal polymer "frangible" bullets & bismuth shot will be the rule of the day. Another way for the hoplophob's in CA to make it hard for CA residents to exercise their 2A rights. Composite bullets will never be as cheap as lead or copper jacketed bullets. high density metals like tungsten & depleted uranium are way more expensive than lead. P.S. the percent price premium for non steel nontoxic shot shells is greater than that for frangible metallic pistol caliber cartridges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Depleted Uranium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 18 minutes ago, Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L said: Depleted Uranium? A little goes a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: I hate to ask, but what are the current thoughts on CAS if the proposed ban on lead ammo for "sport shooting" becomes reality...? Legislation looming in California, but unfortunately could spread. A quick glance at the Interweb shows .38 copper bullets at 50¢ to 72¢ apiece. Primer shortage aside, $10 - $15 a stage can get kinda pricey. And then comes lead-free shotshells, assuming we can adapt to targets that can be safely used with steel shot... Pending legislation in California, but certainly could spread. I worry about CA on some of these things. Elemental lead in a bullet is not dangerous or harmful. Smoking in a lead-dust environment is harmful. The dustiness of lead deteriorating paint is harmful. At this time in CA, San Francisco fans the RIP round because it is too deadly; as a contrast, I would not want to be on the receiving end of any of this sport's minimum power factor cartridges. Dead is dead. I do not acknowledge a concept of being more dead. But the RIP round, being 100% copper, is legal at outdoor ranges in southern CA. I worry about CA and unintended consequences. MTBE in fuel was worse than the formulation it replaced. Back to ammo...Bismuth? Might have unintended consequences: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6281375/ "A 77-year old woman presented with a history of falls. Known health problems included biopsy-proven collagenous colitis treated with bismuth subsalicylate. On examination, in addition to impaired balance and gait, she was found to have tremors and cognitive deficits. Investigations revealed a markedly elevated urinary bismuth level. Withdrawal of bismuth subsalicylate led to marked cognitive and physical improvement." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 4 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: I hate to ask, but what are the current thoughts on CAS if the proposed ban on lead ammo for "sport shooting" becomes reality...? Legislation looming in California, but unfortunately could spread. A quick glance at the Interweb shows .38 copper bullets at 50¢ to 72¢ apiece. Primer shortage aside, $10 - $15 a stage can get kinda pricey. And then comes lead-free shotshells, assuming we can adapt to targets that can be safely used with steel shot... Pending legislation in California, but certainly could spread. It will depend on how the law is written. If they write the law in such a manner that no lead bullet or any other bullet exposed lead is banned, there may still be the option of polymer coated bullets. Otherwise hope it can be overturned in a court case. On edit: I have already started to transition to polymer coated bullets for cowboy shooting and will switch over to polymer coated bullets as I run out of the lead bullets I currently have for handguns. The only center fire rifle caliber I have that used lead bullets is the 45-70 and I have not explored what option, if any, there are for polymer coated 45-70 bullets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 The bill - California AB3071 - Is pretty clear in its intent ~ and typically, quite self-justifying. It also specifically refers to both "sport shooting ranges or indoor shooting ranges:" Quote This bill would prohibit a sport shooting range or an indoor shooting range, as defined, from selling or giving away ammunition unless that ammunition is certified as nonlead ammunition by the commission. The bill would also prohibit patrons or employees of a sport shooting range or an indoor shooting range from firing ammunition unless it is nonlead certified and would require a sport shooting range and an indoor shooting range to post a specified sign to that effect... The United States Environmental Protection Agency defines lead as toxic to both humans and animals. Lead can affect almost every organ and system in the human body, including the heart, bones, intestines, kidneys, and reproductive and nervous systems. It interferes with the development of the nervous system and is therefore particularly toxic to children, causing potentially permanent learning and behavior disorders... Lead is spread through the vapor when a gun is fired and by the dust that comes off the bullet when it is fired. While some ranges have filters and other devices to remediate the lead dust, containment of lead dust in shooting ranges varies considerably between facilities. The only means to ensure that there will not be exposure to those inside and outside of the range is to stop using lead ammunition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 10 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: The bill - California AB3071 - Is pretty clear in its intent ~ and typically, quite self-justifying. It also specifically refers to both "sport shooting ranges or indoor shooting ranges:" Hopefully it will be overturned in a court case because I have little doubt that it will pass in the CA Legislature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cemetery Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 squirt guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 im not ever moving or visiting CA , nothin there , i got everything i need and nothin that i dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 3/8" dowel sliced into 1/2" lengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Louis Suomi SASS #31905 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 zinc - somewhat light than lead, but lead free. STL Suomi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 There are a number of companies making lead free frangible ammunition . The big question is how many are making ammo in cowboy calibers (probably only 38 Special) and how much does it cost. From what little I have read, frangible bullets are not sold to the public for reloading purposes, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 3 hours ago, Chantry said: From what little I have read, frangible bullets are not sold to the public for reloading purposes, They are available. Welcome to Frangible Bullets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Sheridan Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 If you're wondering what ammo will still be CA-approved by next year, here's a start: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, Sixgun Sheridan said: If you're wondering what ammo will still be CA-approved by next year, here's a start: SS, won't open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Sheridan Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 You must be having computer issues. I was referring to biodegradable Airsoft pellets. Of course knowing CA they'll probably even find an issue with them as well, like some rare breed of squirrels are choking on them so they must be outlawed too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 If only Superman hadn't stopped Lex Luther from pushing California into the ocean... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Here in Sacramento County, it is illegal to shoot BB guns. Kinda silly taking one to a gun range... We have two nice German .177 pellet rifles and one pistol that we can no longer shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 2 hours ago, bgavin said: Here in Sacramento County, it is illegal to shoot BB guns. Kinda silly taking one to a gun range... We have two nice German .177 pellet rifles and one pistol that we can no longer shoot. That just bites. It's like making bowling alleys illegal just 'cuz some legislator and his buddies don't like bowling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: That just bites. It's like making bowling alleys illegal just 'cuz some legislator and his buddies don't like bowling. Must not own stock in any beer companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Sheridan Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 And you wonder why there is a mass exodus from California these days? If it were me I'd just shoot those airguns indoors and not worry about it. There is absolutely no reason to restrict BB, pellet or Airsoft guns unless you simply hate guns so much you're trying to remove all traces of them from society. Unfortunately I think the day will soon come when some progressive governor in CA will announce that he/she/it is going to push for California to become the nation's first completely "gun free" state. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Apparently, the mass exodus from CA also contains herds of Democrats. If only Conservatives moved from CA to Phoenix, then AZ would remain Red. This is not the case. As a native son, I looked at Idaho counties for vote counts. There is a steady 30% of Blue votes in nearly ever county... including those in the far north panhandle. I was shocked to see this. CA appears to be taking a different tact... You can own your gun, but it will be damn difficult to buy a new one, or find ammo that is legal to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Sheridan Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 The only reason why California hasn't just flat out banned all guns and ammo yet is because their politicians need a boogeyman to keep getting re-elected. Pretty hard to say you're going to do something about gun violence when you've already banned them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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